[JentheRN05]

I am a M/T in several types of Reiki. It has become strong enough that at times I don't even need to scan a person to know whats wrong. I have taught several classes and everyone is amazed at what can be done. I disagree with the ones who do not believe, but it is their choice to not believe. I have enough people that have seen proof that I personally don't care about the ones that don't believe.

[CharlieRN]

Let me say this again:

If you believe you can prove the exsistence of "Ki", "chee" or "the human energy field" in a repeatable, double blind scientific study, don't waste time on this bulletin board. Contact the folks at randi.org and apply to have your power tested. There is a million USD reward for demonstrating the existence of any psychic power under strick scientific conditions

There is really a million dollar ($ 1,000,000.00 )prize being offered. If you don't want it, win it and donate it to the relief effort. The link is http://www.randi.org/research/index.html

Personally, I would love to manipulate the human energy field and cure patients, I just want scientificly verified proof that there is such a thing. Anactdotal "evidence" (stories)will not do. A scientificly verifiable phenonmenon is objective, repeatable, testable, predictable and falsafiable. That last is most important. It means that an experiment can be designed that will show if the phenomenon in question does not exist. It must be possible to disprove the theory, if the theory is incorrect.

An example of a non falsafiable theory is "prayer works". If you pray and what you pray for happens then you have a positive result. It seems that prayer works. But if you don't get what you pray for: God, who knows better than you decided that it would not be good for you to have that prayer answered. Or alternatively, you did not pray hard enough. No possible result to the experiment will lead to the conclusion that prayer does not work. It is a non falsafiable theory. This does not mean it is not true it just means it can't be proven to be true. Such theories belong to the fields of Belief, not Knowledge. They may be Religion, Myth, Faith, Superstition but it is not Science.

When Jen talks about being sure of her subjective results and unconcerned about "unbelievers" that makes it likely that she is talking about an item which one has to "believe in". Noone needs to "believe in" gravity for it to work for them. It just does. That is because it is real.

[renerian]

Very interesting thread. Right up my "abstract" alley.

renerian

[zenman]

Originally Posted by CharlieRN

If you believe you can prove the exsistence of "Ki", "chee" or "the human energy field" in a repeatable, double blind scientific study, don't waste time on this bulletin board. Contact the folks at randi.org and apply to have your power tested. There is a million USD reward for demonstrating the existence of any psychic power under strick scientific conditions.

How did we get off on psychic power? I guess you haven't heard that Randi is also a trickster and there have been quite a few times when he has backed down from testing at the final moments.

[zenman]

Originally Posted by CharlieRN

Personally, I would love to manipulate the human energy field and cure patients, I just want scientificly verified proof that there is such a thing.

Roger Bannister "thought" he could run a mile in under 4 minutes and did so. Why don't you just "think" you can do something instead of waiting for undeniable truth...just for the fun of it. Call it hypnosis or whatever you want. The mind-body link is powerful. You know that from your healthcare experience. Cancer can disappear when you think a drug is curing you and come right back when you hear the drug is being taken off the market cause it doesn't work.

Anactdotal "evidence" (stories)will not do. A scientificly verifiable phenonmenon is objective, repeatable, testable, predictable and falsafiable. That last is most important. It means that an experiment can be designed that will show if the phenomenon in question does not exist. It must be possible to disprove the theory, if the theory is incorrect.

Problem is that there is no valid scientific study as I've said many times. They are just formal anectdotal stories.

When Jen talks about being sure of her subjective results and unconcerned about "unbelievers" that makes it likely that she is talking about an item which one has to "believe in". Noone needs to "believe in" gravity for it to work for them. It just does. That is because it is real.

Belief is good, but I've also felt things I wasn't believing in such as a powerful wave of energy go up both legs when a Reiki person touched my feet. Felt just like lying on the beach and having a wave wash over you. I also didn't expect an acupuncturist to knock out tennis and golfer's elbow in both elbows (which I'd had for a year) in one session as I had been getting free student acupuncture at the school I taught at for some time.

Whatever. Modern medicine is so ancient it doesn't acknowledge that cell phones exist.

[CharlieRN]

How did we get off on psychic power? I guess you haven't heard that Randi is also a trickster and there have been quite a few times when he has backed down from testing at the final moments.

Randi is a retired professional stage magician. That is the extent to which he is a "trickster". My father was a stage magician and he taught me that if you want to expose a fake what you want is a magician because magicians expect that they will be lied to. Scientists expect everyone to be honest.
His conditions are very up front, apply, submit to a perliminary test, if you get past that do a final test. The money is in an escrow account. The tests are done by a third party. The party being tested will be asked to define what it is that they can do and what constitutes a negative or positive result of the test, before they are tested.
The randi educational fuondation will not pay you to come to them. They will not travel all over the world to test you, but if there is an acceptable third party in your area they may agree to let them do the preliminary test.
You will want to be specific about those times the foundation "backed out of testing". Generally these are stories put out by fakers to explain why they did not submit to having their supposed powers tested.

[zenman]

[quote=CharlieRN]Randi is a retired My father was a stage magician ... I can do "magic" also. We had a patient a few years ago who had rectal/vaginal surgery. Her husband was a magician and performed tricks for us with his T-shirt on so you knew there was nothing up his sleeve! I found out about 10:30 one night that the doctor had told the patient about 6am that she could go home as soon as she had a BM. I asked the patient for permission to do some work on her and worked on her Large Intestine meridian for a few minutes without telling her my purpose. In 10 minutes she had a BM. I told her husband, "Bet you can't do that!" Quite a few people on that unit thought I was the "Amazing Randy!"

Scientists expect everyone to be honest.

I don't believe that, not with the history of studies and scientists in this time and age, including JAMA who made a fool of themselves with that TT "research" article.

You will want to be specific about those times the foundation "backed out of testing". Generally these are stories put out by fakers to explain why they did not submit to having their supposed powers tested.

I'm familar with the details of his website and his requirements. My library still has not arrived but one name that comes to mind is a Swartz(sp), Ph.D and his group who describe their "fun" with the Amazing guy. It was on their website at one time. If you are going to go for bat for this guy, you need to research both sides of the story as I don't have the time to do it for you. There have been studies on "energetic stuff" since the 40s and 50s which still stand up. You should look them up. Now I must return to the books. Have fun!

PS: You haven't talked with a quantum physicists lately have you!

[CharlieRN]

PS: You haven't talked with a quantum physicists lately have you!

What is this in reference to?

[CharlieRN]

possibly Norman Swartzhttp://www.sfu.ca/philosophy/swartz/contents.htm ?

More likely Gary Schwartz http://www.randi.org/jr/030504newsweek.html#1
http://www.randi.org/jr/03-23-2001.html
http://www.dailygrail.com/node/1311
http://survivalscience.50megs.com/torandi.htm
http://www.survivalafterdeath.org/ar...keen/randi.htm
http://www.rickross.com/reference/ge...eneral404.html
only indirectly related:http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal...2.html?sect=21

[CharlieRN]

I think I may have attended a lecture by Schwartz at Umass about 35 yrs ago. If it was the same guy,(he was a bit heavier, looked similar and had an at least similar name) he was at that time billing himself as a scientific "ghost buster". I was disapointed because I had been led to expect scientific investigation but it was the same old spiritualist stuff. No hard data, just subjective reports and then a search through the history of the site to find the story of violent death that "explained" the ghost. The presenter, who may have been Schwartz, then concluded that the history of violence somehow proved the ghost was real.
It wasn't science. In science you first have to demonstrate that the phenomenon is real before you explain it.