[suzanne4]

In the US, most programs have an entry exam as well. This is not some strange phenomenon.

And as Lawrence stated, taking the top 20% means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Much tighter control of the schools that are open as well as closure of the ones that do not have satisfactory number of graduates that can pass the NLE the first time.

In the US, if they do not have sufficient number of passers, they lose their accreditation. And the school is forced to close if not corrected rather quickly.

[pinoy_guy]

Originally Posted by lawrence01

Upper 20% from one school is simply not objective enough. The upper 20% of one school in a far away province with x students is not the same as the upper 20% from a school in the metropolis area with xxx students.

you are correct. I agree that applying the same curve--via a national exam--is the best way to do this.

however, this had been criticized as being "biased" against people outside Manila.

I don't know how using a strictly objective criteria can be labelled as "biased," but there you go.

Originally Posted by lawrence01

Also, the rating from this exam should be the main basis for accepting students and not on the school's personal preferences. Some big-time schools discriminately do not accept 2nd-coursers, have height limits, age limits or whatever they think of.

I have an idea which schools you are referring to.

it's kinda sad, these little people lording it over their little kingdoms.

their prejudice speaks volumes about their ethics and principles.

[lawrence01]

Originally Posted by lawrence01

This is what I was proposing from some time in the forums but not a test to tell them what they ought to take for college but rather a specific exam such as a National Nursing Admissions Test (NNAT) similar to what they do to would-be medical students (NMAT) should be greatly considered.

And since it will also be used to limit students then there should be a clause that only students with a certain rating will be able to enroll in any nursing program. This is impt. as we do not want those with low ratings being picked up by low standard schools. So, this is like hitting 2 birds in one stone. We are limiting the number of possible nursing students over-all and preventing or limiting low-standard schools in just picking up any student to become their students.

It is up to the PNA and the BON to suggest this to CHED. Upper 20% from one school is simply not objective enough. The upper 20% of one school in a far away province with x students is not the same as the upper 20% from a school in the metropolis area with xxx students.

Also, the rating from this exam should be the main basis for accepting students and not on the school's personal preferences. Some big-time schools discriminately do not accept 2nd-coursers, have height limits, age limits or whatever they think of.

Before someone can mis-interpret me, just want to say that there are many excellent schools or universities outside Manila and what I am actually referring to are the typical or average nursing schools.

[lawrence01]

however, this had been criticized as being "biased" against people outside Manila.

I don't know how using a strictly objective criteria can be labelled as "biased," but there you go.

I really can't think of any straight-forward, objective way of admitting prospective nursing students than a national admissions test. If they are labeling this as bias then they are admitting that High School students from provinces are sub-par from the national standard and a National Board exam after graduation is bias as well. They don't want a NNAT because it will severely cut some businesses because everything will become objective.



**For people not familiar with National Admissions Tests, this has been regularly used to objectively carve down applicants and minimize subjective preference of some big schools of certain graduates and non-admission of graduates of rival schools in entering their programs. With the out of control students being admitted in nursing schools, this could not be most appropriate and timely to be implemented.

[pinoyNP]

I wonder why others would think that a national entrance exam for nursing programs will be biased against applicants from outside Manila. If you actually look at the list of nursing schools with high passing rates in the NLE, you will find that the schools are quite geographically diverse with some located as far north as well as ones that are located in the south. There are many more schools based in Manila with enough name recognition yet do not consistently produce a high passing rate in the NLE.

[pinoy_guy]

Originally Posted by pinoyNP

If you actually look at the list of nursing schools with high passing rates in the NLE, you will find that the schools are quite geographically diverse with some located as far north as well as ones that are located in the south. There are many more schools based in Manila with enough name recognition yet do not consistently produce a high passing rate in the NLE.

curious eh?

there were statistics (I think they stopped publishing this a few years ago) that entrance exam scores of most provincial school graduates do not even come close to the national passing rate. how can they, when they are crammed 200 students to a room...or 200 students under a tree? and the school books are kept under lock and key, because if a book is lost, the teacher gets charged for it. and the teachers who can not even speak straight English? how will these students learn?

then the "top-notchers" of board exams come from far-flung provinces (the so-called "dark horses").

one theory is that these graduates went to Manila for their board exam review.

[jenna18]

I am just worried that because of these many negative, destructive posts of my fellow new Filipino nurses who are as anxious as I am right now, the once positive, hardworking and the best-in-the-world image of the Filipino nurse will be jeopardized. I realise that this is a website, everybody from all over the world can read it... then I'm afraid that we Filipino nurses will be stereotyped. Please don't. There are a lot of Filipino nursing students like me who are doing their best in their studies... please dont forget that we are not only concerned about the 'high salary' that awaits us there in the US, but, as we continue to study nursing, we realize how much we value our role in the society and how much passion we have for this profession.

[pinoyNP]

there were statistics (I think they stopped publishing this a few years ago) that entrance exam scores of most provincial school graduates do not even come close to the national passing rate. how can they, when they are crammed 200 students to a room...or 200 students under a tree? and the school books are kept under lock and key, because if a book is lost, the teacher gets charged for it. and the teachers who can not even speak straight English? how will these students learn?

I think this kind of scenario can happen in Metro Manila as well. We do not exactly have classrooms under a tree in Manila but some of the public Elementary and High Schools there are just as crowded and are just as limited as far as resources, facilities, and teaching support. I think it all boils down to disparities between how education is delivered to Filipinos. We have some of the worst-performing public schools on one end of the spectrum and then the best private and exclusive schools on the other end. You also have to remember that this is not only seen in the Philippines. Certain areas in the US have the same disparity in quality of education. Take for instance the difference bewteen how inner city high school students are poorly taught in comparison to students who perform well in high schools located in affluent suburbs.

then the "top-notchers" of board exams come from far-flung provinces (the so-called "dark horses").

I too wonder about this phenomenon. My theory is that there is room for just a few good schools in one locality as there is a finite number of good teachers in any given area. Unfortunately, only the good schools are able to attract the good teachers.

one theory is that these graduates went to Manila for their board exam review.[/quote]

Don't most everyone else review in Manila anyway including those who graduate from schools in Metro Manila?

[pinoy_guy]

Originally Posted by pinoyNP

I think this kind of scenario can happen in Metro Manila as well. We do not exactly have classrooms under a tree in Manila but some of the public Elementary and High Schools there are just as crowded and are just as limited as far as resources, facilities, and teaching support. I think it all boils down to disparities between how education is delivered to Filipinos. We have some of the worst-performing public schools on one end of the spectrum and then the best private and exclusive schools on the other end. You also have to remember that this is not only seen in the Philippines. Certain areas in the US have the same disparity in quality of education. Take for instance the difference bewteen how inner city high school students are poorly taught in comparison to students who perform well in high schools located in affluent suburbs.

good point.

I was surprised when I meet American patient's kids--high school graduates--who don't have an inkling of Iraq or recession; they are, however, highly opinionated about everything, and very passionate about what car or HDTV they're gonna ask their parents to buy for them.

however, I have met a few American students who are driven and very intelligent.

you're right--there's a huge gap even in American schools.

Originally Posted by pinoyNP

I too wonder about this phenomenon. My theory is that there is room for just a few good schools in one locality as there is a finite number of good teachers in any given area. Unfortunately, only the good schools are able to attract the good teachers.

the "dark horses phenomena" leaves these top-notch schools scratching their collective heads. they supposedly have the best teachers because they pay good salaries...yet their graduates are trumped by some graduate from some province.

Originally Posted by pinoyNP

Don't most everyone else review in Manila anyway including those who graduate from schools in Metro Manila

before I left, the fad was for these reviewers to go to the provinces to hold their reviews.

kinda like importing lecturers from abroad.

[Fiona59]

Originally Posted by kat15

I am just worried that because of these many negative, destructive posts of my fellow new Filipino nurses who are as anxious as I am right now, the once positive, hardworking and the best-in-the-world image of the Filipino nurse will be jeopardized. I realise that this is a website, everybody from all over the world can read it... then I'm afraid that we Filipino nurses will be stereotyped. Please don't. There are a lot of Filipino nursing students like me who are doing their best in their studies... please dont forget that we are not only concerned about the 'high salary' that awaits us there in the US, but, as we continue to study nursing, we realize how much we value our role in the society and how much passion we have for this profession.

I hate to disillusion you but the "hardworking and the best-in-the-world image" is held only your countrymen.

I've worked a lot of years and can only say we judge individual nurses on their performances not their country of origin.

If anything this area of the forum has made nurses in North American aware of a certain arrogance coming from nurses trained in your country. That and the fact that many appear more interested in getting to the US via any method possible and then moaning about the routes they have chosen to take.