[fragino]

Don't you just love vaporware?

You're recommending the iPod touch or iPhone to your students? So that means that they will be allowed to use a device with a cell phone and a camera in the facilities that they will be working in? Your facilities are a lot more liberal with their policies than the ones I've been involved in and California is a pretty liberal place.

They may be able to turn the phone function off and promise not to use the camera but that's just like the students promising that they won't use the rest of the functions if you will let them use their PDA's calculator during a test. You may believe them, they may be sincere, but will the facilities buy it?

[BrentT]

Originally Posted by fragino

You're recommending the iPod touch or iPhone to your students? So that means that they will be allowed to use a device with a cell phone and a camera in the facilities that they will be working in? Your facilities are a lot more liberal with their policies than the ones I've been involved in and California is a pretty liberal place.

They may be able to turn the phone function off and promise not to use the camera but that's just like the students promising that they won't use the rest of the functions if you will let them use their PDA's calculator during a test. You may believe them, they may be sincere, but will the facilities buy it?

The iPod Touch has neither a phone or camera so there should be no problem in any facility. None of my facilities have restrictions about carrying a phone or camera, just in where they may or may not be used. If we are professionals we should be trusted to behave professionally.

As far as the concern about vaporware goes, I am not concerned. Epocrates is already citing their upcoming software. Skyscape already sells iPhone software that connects to the network, and I have had personal communication with their developers who tell me to expect a fall release date for the iPod Touch. I also know about some software that is coming very soon that I am not permitted to discuss on this forum.

I think there is a good topic here for a discussion thread about the possession/use of cell phones in clinical sites. Most physicians I know use Palms and/or Blackberry smartphones. Do facilities control the MDs use of such phones? If not, I think nurses would have a good argument for the need to be trusted to act professionally.

It is not a violation of privacy to take a patient's picture with their permission, if the picture is not published publicly (unless there is an agency policy prohibiting all photography).

Talking on a cell phone while working is no different than doing any other personal activity while working. You just don't do it unless you are on a break and in a private area. Questions about the safety of using a phone in a clinical setting have been greatly exaggerated.

So yes, I am recommending students buy an iPod Touch if they are going to be starting clinical in the spring of 2009. If they need the resource for the fall of 2008 then they will need a Palm or Windows Mobile device (or just carry the reference books for a semester). If they already own a Palm or Windows Mobile device there is no reason not to continue to use it. I just believe the iPod Touch will an overall better device clinically, and can be used as an iPod, personal organizer, and there will soon be thousands of programs that can be loaded onto it.

[fragino]

There is a world of difference how an MD is treated when he breaks the rules about cell phone use and how a nurse is treated. Not right, but that's the way it is.

There is also a world of difference in how much a student is trusted to/perceived to act professionally and how a nurse is.

BUT, since you are the one running your clinicals and your facilities have no problems with it, then all the lights are green and by all means do so. I was just concerned with students buying a piece of expensive electronic equipment and not being able to use it in the place they intended to use it.

[fragino]

Yes I do understand that touch is not a phone but you did state "I will be recommending that my incoming nursing students buy an iPod Touch (or an iPhone if they want an AT&T cell phone) for their clinical references."

[diveRN]

I received this message from Unbound on 7/11/08. I sent a message to him to follow up on a note I originally sent back in Jan. I prefer Davis' (Unbound) Guide over Epocrates for drug info... it's easier to use and contains more information. I use my own calcs for various things.

Mark,

Thanks for your continued interest. We are working diligently to create a native iPhone application. I have seen a working prototype in house. I do not have a release date as of yet.

Regards,

Paul M. Stadter
Unbound Medicine Inc.

www.unboundmedicine.com

[CraigB-RN]

To be a Devils Advocate here, I'm not sure that recomending "The newest and greatest" is the best way to go, unless you have specific applications. Asa a rule it's always the better part of valor not to be one of those early adopters. Having been involved in one of those early tablet PC rollouts, I can say we should have waited a year or two.

When recommending someone buy any tech item, it's always good to look at the whole picture. Palm and Windows have the most options at this time, and they won't always have access to wifi. As of right now, I'd still have to classify the touch/iphone as a toy for most people. now that being said I use a touch, because most of my lectures on podcasts and i can see the video as well listen. So I have a touch, but in the other pocket is my trusty (many year old) palm.

[BrentT]

There is a saying that if you live on the cutting edge, you will bleed a lot.

That said, I think incorporating the iPod Touch as a clinical handheld computer is not as big a risk as it may sound. The computer itself is actually a mobile version of Mac OS X, and Mac OS X is a GUI on top of UNIX. As a computer it is very stable, and the interface has been better thought out than any previous handheld IMHO.

The issue of WiFi access in all settings is not important because the new software does not require network access (unlike the original iPhone medical apps). All data reside on the device, just like Palm and Windows Mobile devices, but with many times more memory available (8 or 16 GB, vs 128 -512 MB).

The strongest argument against buying into the iPod Touch as of July 2008 is the lack of immediate software. I have been telling my students who are in hospital based clinicals and need a handheld in August to just stick with the Palm devices we have been using.

For those students who will not be starting clinical until spring of 2009 it is a tougher call. They do have to hope that the publishers come through with their promised software. I have every reason to believe they are as it is not terribly difficult to port their databases to the new OS. Most publishers expect to have titles for sale by Fall 2008.

For nursing students who will not start clinical until later in 2009, I believe they will be very happy getting an iPod Touch now. It is useful as an organizer, iPod, and can begin to load medical software as it becomes available.

Back in 1998-2001 there was a rush of small medical software titles released. Some were free or required small fees. Many of those titles were never updated. With the start of third-party application development for the iPhone there will be another rush of titles coming soon.

[diveRN]

Originally Posted by CraigB-RN

...
Palm and Windows have the most options at this time, and they won't always have access to wifi.
...

Epocrates now has a free drug guide that resides on the Iphone and most of the others aren't far behind. No wifi needed. This is the biggest reason I've held off on an Iphone. I've used a Palm since they first came out.

The MAIN reasons I use a PDA: calendar, formulas, and a bedside drug guide. Everything else is fluff, but if I can get something that integrates it all into one device... all the better. The GUI, particularly for Safari, is light years ahead of anything Palm has done or will soon do.

[richardjboro1]

wow, so epocrates has a native app for iphone? link please? I can't find it on the app store nor online. Also, any update on when skyscape may be releasing some? I reaaaaaaaally like davis drug guide, since my nsg instructors seem to want to know all the info they give in there!

[diveRN]

Originally Posted by richardjboro1

wow, so epocrates has a native app for iphone? link please? I can't find it on the app store nor online. Also, any update on when skyscape may be releasing some? I reaaaaaaaally like davis drug guide, since my nsg instructors seem to want to know all the info they give in there!

A coworker has the NEW Iphone, she got her version from the app store.

I just Googled "epocrates Iphone" and got this.