#1 Nursing Resource: 8 Million pageviews per month

Log in   Sign up   Why join?   | Layout: Switch to narrow layout Color: gold style blue style rose style
Nursing Community for Nurses
Home Forums Articles Specialty Students Region Career Resources

Advanced Search Site Help Site Map

Perplexing question- Diagnosis Order HELP PLEASE



Currently Online
Members: 307
Guests: 1,965
2,272

Job Spotlight
Sales & Customer Service Rep
Broughton, Illinois
Forum Spotlight
Distance Learning for Nursing

Nursing Degrees

Nursing Articles

Lives Forever Changed – I am Glad!
The Tip
Through a different set of eyes...How a patient changed me.
A Loving Pair
A Patient who Changed my Life
On Death And Dying
Patients who have changed our lives good or bad
They Changed My Life With Exercise
What We Do Not Learn In School
What I Love About My Job
Submit An Article

Nursing Jobs

Job Seeker: Employer:

Scrubs & Gear

Newsletter

Subscribe to the free allnurses.com email newsletter. We will keep you informed of nursing news, articles, discussions, and more.

Enter your email address:

Read current:
Nursing Newsletter

How-To allnurses

allnurses videos

Welcome to allnurses: A Nursing Community for Nurses

The largest most active online nursing community. Join 303,689 nurses from around the world to learn, communicate, and network. For full allnurses.com access, register today - it's free! Problems during registration? Please don't hesitate to contact support.

Would you like to comment?
Join or Login if already a member.
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old Sep 15, 2004, 09:26 PM
Monica RN,BSN's Avatar
New Jail Nurse
Join Date: Jul 2003
Perplexing question- Diagnosis Order HELP PLEASE

I have a question regarding those who recieve physical therapy.

I was instructed that if physical therapy is ordered, then the primary diagnosis has to be something ortho related, or has to be weakness, or unsteady gait, etc.

My thought is for example, if the patient was admitted for, let's say wound care, but needs therapy.... I would think the primary would be why the nurse needs to be there rather than why the therapist needs to be there....

someone please help me out on this one.....
Thanks!!

Top
  #2  
Old Sep 15, 2004, 09:32 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003

If nursing is a skill, the nurse has to "complete" the OASIS and the primary diagnosis is the one driving nursing service. Order for skilled services by priority are: SN, PT, OT, then ST. PT can recert and be a primary skill. OT can be primary after SN &/or PT discharge.

Top
  #3  
Old Sep 15, 2004, 09:37 PM
Monica RN,BSN's Avatar
New Jail Nurse
Join Date: Jul 2003

Thanks....

I am being told that a PT diagnosis is ALWAYS primary... True or false?

I do the OASIS for alot of the admits.... So am I correct if I say the nurse diagnosis SUPERCEEDS a PT diagnosis? or not....

Top
  #4  
Old Sep 16, 2004, 06:50 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003

http://www.cms.hhs.gov/oasis/usermanu.asp

This is where I get my information. It states in the manual that nursing takes precedence over PT, you can show it in black and white. There is also a list of State contacts for OASIS questions. Most states offer OASIS 101 training; very helpful to be trained by the same people who audit you submission errors

Top
  #5  
Old Sep 16, 2004, 10:27 AM
NRSKarenRN's Avatar
Co-Administrator
Join Date: Oct 2000

The service that will be providing the most care to the patient should be listed as primary.

From 3M OASIS Integrity Project: http://www.nahc.org/NAHC/LegReg/3MNOIP.pdf

Recommendations from Expert Design Forum

Optimal Question: Primary diagnosis: What diagnosis is driving the home health plan of care?

Secondary Diagnoses: What diagnoses are addressed by the home health plan of care or have the potential to affect the plan of care, affect progress and rehabilitationpotential or justify all services provided?


Optimal Technique: Determine diagnostic statements after completion of assessment, determining patient’s needs and formulation of home health plan of care.

Tips:
Follow ICD coding guidelines (www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/icd9/icdguide.pdf) and use current coding books.

Follow directions in Home Health Agency Manual #11 (Sec. 234.7 (11-13).
Refer to CMS guidance document, "Diagnosis Coding for Medicare Home Health under PPS", (
cms.hhs.gov/providers/hhapps/hhdiag.pdf) for examples.

Refer to CMS OASIS Implementation Manual, Chapter 8, Attachment D for the use of v-codes.
Primary Diagnosis:
Diagnosis most related to the current plan of care developed by the agency.

Represents the most acute condition and most intensive services.

May not be related to the reason for hospitalization.

May be best described by a v-code.

Secondary Diagnoses:
Conditions addressed by the plan of care.

Conditions that coexist and have the potential to affect the plan of care.

Justify disciplines and services rendered.

May be described as a V- or E-code.







---------------------

Two examples:

Mr Smith has dx of CHF which resulted in 2 hospitalizations in the past month, DJD, unsteady gait discharged with new cane. Services requested RN and PT

RN eval reveals 10 medications, four new, multiple old meds from three years ago in the home. Pt was able to walk upstairs easily with cane to show RN bathroom for safety eval.

RN expects nursing to be in longer than PT so CHF is listed as primary diagnosis.


Miss Eisenhower has dx of CHF, treated with one dose IV lasix, DJD and is status post knee replacement. Orders for RN to remove staples in five days, PT for home exercise program

RN eval reveals pt on 4 meds; knowledgable about purpose, schedule and side effects. Current RX recently refilled in the home. Pt able to describe NAS diet + meal plan. Follows writtenmed schedule posted on refrigerator. Pt states told she went into mild CHF due amount of fluids used in operation. ambulatory with new walker, only 20 feet in home and has first floor powder room.

RN expects nursing in only for 2-3 further visits but needs extensive PT.
PT Aftercare of surgery, DJD then CHF listed.


If its a tossup, then list SN as primary.


Last edited by NRSKarenRN : Sep 16, 2004 at 11:13 AM.
Top
  #6  
Old Sep 16, 2004, 12:05 PM
NRSKarenRN's Avatar
Co-Administrator
Join Date: Oct 2000

Originally Posted by nancynurz
Order for skilled services by priority are: SN, PT, OT, then ST. PT can recert and be a primary skill. OT can be primary after SN &/or PT discharge.
ST can be an admitting stand alone service under Medicare.


If it is Managed care company (not Medicare or Medicaid HMO ) requesting OT only, OT can be an admitting service if your agency has therapist who are willing.

Top
  #7  
Old Sep 16, 2004, 05:27 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003

Hooboy! I have no idea where I got SN is primary from I've had it placed in my brain and gold-plated, so now I've gotta train myself back out of it! Even the Palmetto GBA manual CLEARLY states:

"The HHA enters the ICD-9-CM code for the principal diagnosis. This code must be the full ICD-9-CM diagnosis code, including all five digits where applicable. When the proper code has fewer than five digits, it is not zero filled. It may or may not relate to the patient’s most recent hospital stay, but it must relate to the services the agency is rendering. If more than one diagnosis is treated concurrently, enter the diagnosis that represents the most acute condition and requires the most intensive services."

Sorry Monica-- I've seen that passage tons of times, yet that mental block is still there. It took a year before I remembered to use N/A for the therapy MO item on my Medicaid patients and a good two years for the skin lesions.

Top
  #8  
Old Sep 17, 2004, 06:55 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004

I THINK IT HAS TO DO WITH WHO WILL BE IN THE HOME THE LONGEST AND ALSO WHO WILL GAIN YOUR AGENCY THE MOST MONEY!

Originally Posted by Monica RN,BSN
I have a question regarding those who recieve physical therapy.

I was instructed that if physical therapy is ordered, then the primary diagnosis has to be something ortho related, or has to be weakness, or unsteady gait, etc.

My thought is for example, if the patient was admitted for, let's say wound care, but needs therapy.... I would think the primary would be why the nurse needs to be there rather than why the therapist needs to be there....

someone please help me out on this one.....
Thanks!!

Top
  #9  
Old Sep 18, 2004, 05:57 PM
Monica RN,BSN's Avatar
New Jail Nurse
Join Date: Jul 2003

Thanks for your help.......

Top
  #10  
Old Sep 27, 2004, 07:51 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2002
very funny!

The most money!! LOL feels like that is a mesage sometimes doesn't it?

renerian

Top
Sponsored Links
 
Would you like to comment?
Join or Login if already a member.


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Nurses: Failure rate of courses perplexing - Jackson Clarion Ledger Nursing News Mississippi Nurses 23 Mar 29, 2008 08:36 PM
5 nursing diagnosis in priority order autopsy Nursing Student Assistance Forums 4 Mar 27, 2007 06:39 AM
nursing diagnosis list -order mysterious_one Nursing Student Assistance Forums 7 Mar 20, 2007 12:00 PM
Priority Order of nursing Nursing Diagnosis.. nervefreak Nursing Student Assistance Forums 11 Oct 09, 2006 02:01 AM


Currently Active Users Viewing: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



New To Site?
Need Help?

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:10 AM.

Perplexing question- Diagnosis Order HELP PLEASE

Copyright © 1996-2008, allnurses.com. All rights reserved.  allnurses.com, Inc. Advertising Information