[jwk]

Originally Posted by deepz

Again, I bow to your expertise and your endeavours along those lines.

I'll be glad to dig out the articles from the North Carolina newspapers.

[PageRespiratory!]

Originally Posted by neurogeek

An AA becomes degreed without ever having any hands-on patient experience out in practice prior to their training.

>
Oh really?

[n_g]

My hospital has both CRNA's and AA's and I have worked with both. Both are interchangeable. Of course, CRNA's never hear hostility from the anesthesiologists and typically vice versa. They keep it among themselves. But if you really want to know what they're thinking, get to know them and ask for their honest opinion. The next generation of anesthesiologists who are graduating or will be graduating and who are taking over from the older, non-politically active anesthesiologists are quite aware of the AANA propaganda and they're not too happy with it.

[fungirl]

I find this topic so so funny!!! Why is everyone so jealous and envious of CRNA's?? Other than the fact that we are incredibly intelligent and good looking! It's great, the fact that you are in such an uproar just goes to show that the AANA is doing a FANTASTIC JOB!!! And, in my opinion and very little experience as an rrna currently in clinical, MDA's and CRNA's do work cordially, but it is only on the surface............I wouldn't trust one as far as I could throw him/her!! I know how we can make you AA's feel better, let's get an association for the anethesia techs, so those two can hack it out and be jealous of one another!! Soungs Good to me!!!

Originally Posted by jwk

Don't know how long he's been your ex, but maybe you should do some catching up. A lot has changed in the last few years. The AANA has brought "shooting themselves in the foot" to a whole new level in the last few years. Until fairly recently, MD/CRNA relations were fairly cordial, and in fact, in the hospital, still are most of the time. However, as far as the political side, the AANA has ramped up the rhetoric so much that anesthesiologists have simply had enough, and are now willing to fight back. The ASA is not alone in all this - the AMA is on board as well. Add to that the lies, distortions, and even possible bribes revolving around some CRNA's and their fights against AA legislation, and the AANA and other CRNA organizations simply lose credibility.

It would be unusual for MD's and CRNA's to be "partners". In fact, in some states, a professional corporation consisting of those two different types of providers would be barred by statute.

[Josh L.Ac.]

Even if an AA is accepted into school with zero medical experience [cough], don't they still get more clinical hours in their program than SRNA's?

[n_g]

The only certain about the future is change.


Researchers develop automated anesthesia system

[ready4crna?]

Originally Posted by Josh L.Ac.

Even if an AA is accepted into school with zero medical experience [cough], don't they still get more clinical hours in their program than SRNA's?

This is a question that JWK may be able to help with. The method for calculating AA clinical experience hours is a mystery to me.
As far as I can tell, the AA programs count any time spent doing clinical tasks as clinical experience time with no specifics as to what types of cases or experiences are actually achieved. If this is how they are allowed to account for clinical experience hours (including orientation to pulseox placement)- Then you are being slightly dishonest in your [cough] assertion.

By contrast, and I can only speak for my program. I am only allowed to count cases and clinical time as valid only during the time I am the primary anesthetist on the case. My time spent in post-op follow up, preop for cases that aren't mine, or other related functions that are not specific for the anesthetic that I am the primary anesthetist for is accounted for in other categories that are, for lack of a better description, "non clinical time." This includes breaks.
So if my research and interpretation of AA liturature is correct, if my time was counted in the same manner would be at a minimum 4000 hours during the program.(Current projections for my school put us each at well over 5000 hours of "total clinical experience hours" upon graduation, with approx 2000 hours as a primary anesthetist on our own cases with minimum numbers of specific cases. Or 70 hour weeks for the next year and a half...I can't wait)
I will not get drawn into the argument that one provider is better than the other as I am sure that there are case studies for each side. But please do not tell me that counting clinical experience time as a function of comparison is a valid place to come from.
I'll even save you the time of pointing out that not all programs are like mine... but my personal exemplar is more common than not.

[fungirl]

Well, Josh, I don't claim to know a thing about AA's, but I doubt that their hours are more than my critical care nursing experience, plus my hours in my CRNA program. For example, 5 yrs. experience in various icu settings prior to beginning school: cvicu, neuro, trauma, med/surg....Now, during these years of critical care nursing, I learned a many of things, that AA's and residents are going to just start to learn to do when arriving at their program on day 1. For example, using the many vasopressor agents that we use in anesthesia (5 yrs experience), manipulating vent settings (5 yrs. experience), clinical assessment skills (5 yrs experience), interpreting swan numbers and using pharmacoloical agents to manipulate them (5 yrs. experience)........And the list goes on.....Let's say I only worked 10 months out of each of the 5 years at 36 hrs/week............that gives us a grand total of 7200 hours of clinical experience prior to even starting the didactic portion of my program!!!!


And to you n g: I suspect that you are not an AA or a CRNA, but however, a med student or something of the like!!! AANA/ASA who gives a crap: If MDA's weren't too good to record uop/empty uop, write down vitals every 3 minutes....................Then they wouldn't be in the situation that they are in now!!


Now then, I just wished that people wouldn't claim to know everything about nurse anesthesia education, when they actually know nothing!! Especially, when I as a current RRNA have given up a lot and studied into the wee hours of the morning to get to where I am now, to just have somebody come on some public forum and disregard all of my hard work!!!!!

That's right, and I can say it all without having to cough!!!!

Originally Posted by Josh L.Ac.

Even if an AA is accepted into school with zero medical experience [cough], don't they still get more clinical hours in their program than SRNA's?

[jwk]

Originally Posted by fungirl

Well, Josh, I don't claim to know a thing about AA's, but I doubt that their hours are more than my critical care nursing experience

You admit you know nothing about AA's, then continue on your tirade. All you "know" is what you regurgitate from the AANA.

[airrn]

Originally Posted by jwk

You admit you know nothing about AA's, then continue on your tirade. All you "know" is what you regurgitate from the AANA.

Exactly where was the info she regurgitated from the AANA? Can you disprove what she said or do we need to add reading to the list of deficiencies at Northside?

The fact is she told the truth, medical experience is NOT required to enter AA school period. No matter how you spin it, critical care experience is required for CRNA school.

As for clinical hours "ready4crna" is spot on with her account. Every school in my state mirrors her experience contrary to the "propoganda" being put out.

N G is medical student who has taken it upon himself to fight a crusade, not only against CRNA's who are his Number 1 enemy but also APN's in general.