[marie-francoise]

Originally Posted by Daytonite

"Eating their young" has to do with people, not necessarily managers vs staff, who act in a bullying and nasty way to others in an intimidating way in order to deliberately belittle them. I've seen plenty of staff nurses go after other staff nurses and "eat them". This post is an issue about a manager correcting the wrongdoing of a staff nurse. "Eating their young" doesn't apply here.

Actually, I was talking about the tone of some of the responding posts here.

[ingelein]

[quote=Daytonite;2550447]We don't know the whole story here. I've been in management and supervision. I think there may be things the OP hasn't revealed. Also, a write up for abondonment is a big attention getter and I suspect from my background in management that this was done not only because of the primary infraction and an opportunity because a rule was broken, but possibly because of some other issues that may be going on as well. Why not correct her for the things she has done wrong, so she can improve, why lump them together and charge her with a very serious infraction like abandonment?This is a tactic I have seen DONs do and it is not admirable. MO.The fact that the OP pointed out in the initial post that her preceptor was responsible indicates a serious lack of responsibility in regard to her job duties. We learn from Day 1 of nursing school that we are all responsible for our actions. That, I felt, was a big error in thinking that may be part of the real problem that this manager has to deal with. I'm wondering if there were other incidents where the OP blamed her preceptor or others for things that happened. Maybe the preceptor was not doing something right and the new nurse HAD to complain about her ethically and legally.You are right WE dont know the entire story, but I wont jump to conclusions and blame the new nurse for abandonment-very serious charge.Just my thoughts on this. If I had a new employee that had that kind of thinking (blaming everyone else for their errors) and it was getting to be a regular habit, I'd be looking for any ways I could to get this person off my unit as this is trouble waiting to happen down the road.As another poster stated , no wonder there is a nursing shortage,management CAN be guilty of eating their young , they seem to have an appetite for this kind of punitive overreaction. Mind you, I'm not saying this is what is going on, just my thoughts on it as I was reading the original and second post. Most of us know that as new grads, and even as new employees, when you make a mistake, the respectful thing to do is to own up to it, correct yourself and don't do it again.She did own up to the mistake of not telling her precepter where she was going.She is CORRECT not to be bullied into agreeing she abandoned her patients. You don't profess to know all the facility rules better than your boss. You don't start talking about who to blame instead of yourself and how to file a grievance. I'm wondering if the OP expressed any of these thoughts to fellow employees which would be one more mistake to add to this mess which the boss wouldn't like at all. Again, just my thinking. These are the surest ways to cause negative unwanted attention to yourself. It's very hard to write someone up for their bad attitude. But, breaking a rule gives the boss legitimacy to throw the book at you when they could just give you an informal slap on the hands and a "tsk tsk" and it could be all because of an employee's general unacceptable attitude.Again, if these are the tactics that are considered acceptable by management, to "THROW THE BOOK" at someone for stepping on some toes, well, again, no wonder there is a nursing shortage. We need a culture change in the healthcare field. This is a prime reason some facilities find themselves in a lawsuit by the former employee.[/quote]To the OP, keep your chin up, but welcome to the world of nursing.

[ingelein]

Originally Posted by Daytonite

"Eating their young" has to do with people, not necessarily managers vs staff, who act in a bullying and nasty way to others in an intimidating way in order to deliberately belittle them. I've seen plenty of staff nurses go after other staff nurses and "eat them". This post is an issue about a manager correcting the wrongdoing of a staff nurse. "Eating their young" doesn't apply here.

I respectfully disagree with your premise, management eats nurses and spits them out, why do you think there is such unrest and unhappiness in the workplace in hosptals and nursing homes? The punitive overreactive style of managing should by now be a thing of the past.All the more reason to have unions in place.

[Angie O'Plasty, RN]

Originally Posted by bell83

During my shift, which I had not actually clocked in but had received report because I had done smething hospital ssociated prior to that day that I needed to fill out a form for, I went to go speak to a manager about an issue I was having with my preceptor. Although I did not leace the unit, because this manager's office is on the unit I was told that I had abandoned my patient assignment. This does not make sense to me because although I know I should have informed my preceptor, I was not included on the census as I am on orientation, and I did not actually leave the unit. Ultimately my preceptor is the one responsible so would it make sense for me to receive a write up for pt. abandonment? Who should I take this to?

I guess I don't get it because you say you were in the manager's office, yet the manager wrote you up for patient abandonment?

If it was your preceptor who wrote you up, you'd go to the manager. Where I work, the manager sees all the writeups anyway, so that'd be the logical place to start.

Was it warranted? To me it sounds pretty extreme. I know that if I was written up for something like that when I was new and already having problems with my preceptor, my first thought would be to get off that unit.

I guess it depends on how long you were gone and what was going on with the patient you had taken assignment on.

We're usually pretty flexible with the new grads. If I'm precepting and for one reason or another, the grad is having a tough day and simply can't handle it, that's my cue to step in. IMO, any preceptor needs to be able to step in and immediately take over that patient when the going gets rough. I think this is what you were presuming when you went off to your manager's office, but if you failed to tell the preceptor you were going and give an update on that patient, you could see how there could be a problem if the patient suddenly took a bad turn. Whenever someone goes bad, the first thing everyone wants to know is where is their nurse, what's happening, and then a history of the patient. However, if you're not available, no one knows who's done what and why the patient is suddenly having problems.

So yes, it can be considered abandonment if you simply up and leave your patients without telling anyone about them. I was worried about this myself one night when my rebellious ol' body had the nerve to go into Vtach on me while I was charting on my patients. I gave Report as they were whisking me to the ER.

Giving Report is one of those nursie things that is such a basic, core concept that it becomes part of our cellular structure after a few years.

Next time you might make sure you are on the clock, then ask your preceptor to take report if you need to speak with the manager first. If your hospital is like mine and you cannot transfer for six months without manager approval, keep your head down and fly under the radar for the next few months. Who knows, by then everything might work itself out.

And please let us know how it goes. There are a lot of us who care and want you to succeed.

[NRSKarenRN]

Putting my detective Managers hat on..

During my shift, which I had not actually clocked in but had received report because I had done smething hospital ssociated prior to that day that I needed to fill out a form for, I went to go speak to a manager about an issue I was having with my preceptor.....

This sentence indicates to me they had previously been spoken to about issues "hospital associated" and need to fill out form... possibly incident or right up their side of story. Further having issues with preceptor = difference of opinion between staff.

I've spent 5-10 minutes looking for a nurse because of patients immediate pressing need.....and spent 30 + minutes searching/calling because staff did not alert anyone they were leaving immediate pt unit to meet with manager behind closed doors....or run over to pharmacy other side of unit door and had to wait for IV admixture cause not ready as promised.

Although I did not leace the unit, because this manager's office is on the unit I was told that I had abandoned my patient assignment

A. something hospital associated prior to that day
B. issue with preceptor
C. left patient area without telling anyone where they are going
and admitted " although I know I should have informed my preceptor"

Because of all of the above, nurse formally counselled re abandoning patient assignment.

I was not included on the census as I am on orientation, and I did not actually leave the unit. Ultimately my preceptor is the one responsible so would it make sense for me to receive a write up for pt. abandonment?

I get the sense from OP that because they are not counted as staff, should not be held responsible for assignment.....doesn't work that way. All staff on orientation are responsible for their individual actions... or lack of action. Due to above, instead of verbal counseling, it was formally written up.

As a manager I will write something up when a staff member is having multiple small problems as a way showing I addressed significant issue when prior verbal prompts on other minor issues unsuccessful getting behavior changed. Some staff take constructive criticism, learn and grow becoming productive team members while others never own up to their issues, repeatedly make mistakes and are later terminated --thankfully rarely occurs. Please view this as a learning opportunity and something that will never happen again in your career.


Angie O'Plasty gave excellent advice:

We're usually pretty flexible with the new grads. If I'm precepting and for one reason or another, the grad is having a tough day and simply can't handle it, that's my cue to step in. IMO, any preceptor needs to be able to step in and immediately take over that patient when the going gets rough. I think this is what you were presuming when you went off to your manager's office, but if you failed to tell the preceptor you were going and give an update on that patient, you could see how there could be a problem if the patient suddenly took a bad turn. Whenever someone goes bad, the first thing everyone wants to know is where is their nurse, what's happening, and then a history of the patient. However, if you're not available, no one knows who's done what and why the patient is suddenly having problems.

So yes, it can be considered abandonment if you simply up and leave your patients without telling anyone about them. I was worried about this myself one night when my rebellious ol' body had the nerve to go into Vtach on me while I was charting on my patients. I gave Report as they were whisking me to the ER.

Giving Report is one of those nursie things that is such a basic, core concept that it becomes part of our cellular structure after a few years.

Next time you might make sure you are on the clock, then ask your preceptor to take report if you need to speak with the manager first. If your hospital is like mine and you cannot transfer for six months without manager approval, keep your head down and fly under the radar for the next few months. Who knows, by then everything might work itself out.

Best wishes on your journey as a nursing professional.

[ingelein]

I agree that there may have been other issues, but why address the other issues under the heading of abandomment?Are we assuming this nurse was at fault here without knowing ALL the details? I guess everyone is going to have a theory here( me included), would be helpful to have more info.Thanks given for trying to be a detective and not automatically jumping to conclusions.

[mercyteapot]

Originally Posted by ingelein

I agree that there may have been other issues, but why address the other issues under the heading of abandomment?Are we assuming this nurse was at fault here without knowing ALL the details? I guess everyone is going to have a theory here( me included), would be helpful to have more info.

There are always at least 2 sides to a story and usually more than that, but I can't respond to the "other side" when I don't know what it is. I don't see the wisdom of pointing out to everyone else that "we don't know the whole story" and then proceeding to pass judgment on the OP as if I, personally, am privy to the "other side", just because I happen to be a manager myself (which I am).

I'm not saying that you did that- I'm agreeing with you that it is inappropriate for us to assume the OP is at fault when we just don't know. Of course it is the OP's version of the story to which I responded because that's the one I was given! When I feel so strongly that the OP's story is missing some critical information, I keep my opinion to myself or ask for clarification.

[DutchgirlRN]

Originally Posted by Daytonite

I think that writing you up for abandonment is a little harsh, but you did make a mistake and I sincerely hope that the write-up made it's point.

You can't just go off to talk to your manager about some issue you have and not notify your preceptor or anyone else on the unit where you are going to be!!!! What if one of your patient's needed something? I don't care that you are in orientation and you think your preceptor is responsible. The staff needs to know your location on the unit at all times, including potty and lunch breaks. You are in training and supposed to conduct yourself like a staff nurse. You did something very irresponsible. And, I'll bet if you read your employee manual or your RN job description this is also clearly stated somewhere in there.

Respectfully, I think that's a bit harsh. I tell the charge nurse, or if I'm in charge I tell the NM, whenever I leave the unit but not for a potty break... do you honestly tell the charge nurse everytime you use the bathroom? I think the preceptor is making a mountain out of a mole hill. When I was a preceptor I was still the nurse responsible for the patients.

Originally Posted by Daytonite

If you can't be found, then, yes, in the broadest sense you are guilty of abandonment from your employer's point of view and if something serious happens to one of your patients while you are off galavanting around

Being in the NM's office, which is on the unit, is not "off galavanting around". Lighten up

Additional advice: Never ever take report on your patients without clocking in.

[Angie O'Plasty, RN]

Originally Posted by DutchgirlRN

Being in the NM's office, which is on the unit, is not "off galavanting around". Lighten up

Additional advice: Never ever take report on your patients without clocking in.

We just had a problem with a tech who "disappeared" for a couple of hours during an insanely busy shift. Even though his whereabouts were later accounted for, he was written up because he had turned off his cell phone and had failed to tell anyone that he was going to be unavailable for a time.

To me, it doesn't matter where you're going; if you're not available for more than ten minutes, we need to know where you can be found. It's more than a simple courtesy; it's a patient safety issue.

And thanks for the reminder to clock in before taking report, Dutchie, because we're told at my hospital that if you didn't clock in, you weren't there, and legally the hospital insurance doesn't have to cover you for anything. So it's very important to clock in. Taking report is the signal that you are ready to take care of your patients.

[DutchgirlRN]

Originally Posted by Angie O'Plasty, RN

And thanks for the reminder to clock in before taking report, Dutchie, because we're told at my hospital that if you didn't clock in, you weren't there, and legally the hospital insurance doesn't have to cover you for anything. So it's very important to clock in. Taking report is the signal that you are ready to take care of your patients.

And thank you Angie for explaining that. I probably should have, but didn't, but you did it much better than I could have anyway. Thanks!