[columbiaetp04]

Hey Asherah:

You didn't even go to Columbia? Then why do you post here? Why do you care?

But actually, I'm glad for you that you didn't go to Columbia. Great Choice!
(And I mean that with all sincerity!)

Why don't you stick to topics you know about, like Hopkins! You probably have a lot more insight about that school. Perhaps you should write about what's great about Hopkins. That way people will go there and not Columbia.

I have to disagree with you though. I keep in touch with over 15 etp '04 grads, and everyone's breath was taken away when they started paying back their loans.

I am not saying that the students are stupid, maybe I didn't make myself clear. Columbia intentionally confuses the financial aid process to make it impossible to know what your payment will be.

Oscar, the financial aid guy is a weasal, and he will not answer questions directly. I was lied to point blank about finances.

Why shouldn't I be mad? I have a ******* master's degree, and I know nurses with nothing more than an associates degree who are much much richer than me.

[Asherah]

I'm posting here for two reasons...I know a few folks who will be starting the ETP program and two, I will also be entering the workplace with a large amount of student loans, so I don't see my situation as differing that much.

Warnings have been made aplenty about Oscar and the financial aid office. Previous ETPers have already posted here and previous ETP threads regarding how careful student should be to cover all of their bases.

The post you just made was much more clear regarding your intent to relay the primary fact (that I feel you are trying to make), which is that the value of a Columbia nursing education is not what most equate it to be.

I truly do think its beneficial to speak to alumni of a school/program to gain insight into the value of the program and a true appraisal of how the program is administered. However, I just think there is a better way to approach getting your message across, that's all.

[columbiaetp04]

Well lets talk about great values in nursing education. Although I now live in Portland, Oregon, I am a native New Yorker. I know people who went to SUNY nursing schools. (SUNY - State University of New York) and now have wonderful careers. Major SUNY nursing schools include Downstate in Brooklyn, SUNY Buffalo, and SUNY New Paltz.

None of these people who went to SUNY schools have had their career damaged in any way. In fact several of them have jobs which are better than mine.

Nursing is a very down to earth profession for the most part. I can't think of an employer who won't give you a shot to prove yourself, even if you went to community college. Look at the faculty roster of CUSON - at least when I was there half the faculty went to nursing schools I never heard of.

And in terms of finding a job - whoa. Getting a job as a nurse or as an NP is a joke. I never applied to job that I didn't get. It's not like you need fancy schools on your resume to get a job.

In other careers like law and business - name and reputation of your school matter a lot. Nursing just isn't like that.

And a final word. Columbia University is NOT supportive of the nursing school - and that is from Sarah Sheets Cooke. Dude - they knocked down Maxwell Hall - the original nursing building, and moved the admin. offices to one half of an old dormitory. Nursing students share the same classrooms as dental and med students- however nursing classes are scheduled around the medical school schedule.

Sarah Sheets Cooke herself stated that the Board of Trustees of Columbia wanted to prevent a PhD program from being formed because "there isn't enough knowledge in Nursing to justify a PhD."

The Dean of the Health Sciences Campus spoke at our ETP graduation, and he stated that ETP was 2 years long. (It's actually 1 year) That shows how in tune with ETP he is. The rest of his speech was comprised of him begging us to contact our representatives in Washington to support stem cell research. (Before Bush's ban on federal spending on stem cell research - Columbia was one of the biggest research labs in the world dealing with stem cells.) Totally not related to nursing.

Where does all our tuition go? I don't know. The nursing school is run like a secret parasite school of the medical school. We used the med school facilities when the med students didn't need them.

I have a suspicion our nursing tuition is at least in part, turned over to the parent university.

[SteveRN21]

I'm not an ETP student, but a traditional MSN/NNP student who works with a LOT of ex-ETP graduates. Yes they have all amassed a lot of debt, especially if they hadn't finished paying off their original undergrad loans...However, many of them have had 60-70% of their outstanding loans paid off by committing to work for 2 years at Columbia Pres, or another hospital that is designated as serving a disproportionate number of the underserved. They also were able to see several thousands of dollars worth of Federal Perkins loans disappear because they eventually became nursing graduates.

Let's stop bashing which particular school one went to, or whether or not a degree from a particular institution gives you an advantage. I think that by this point, people are "old" enough to determine what is and isn't financially within their reach.

JMHO.

[columbiaetp04]

Stevern21:

What you are refering to is the Nursing Loan Education Repayment Program, which is managed by the U.S Department of Health and Human Services. There website is: http://bhpr.hrsa.gov/nursing/loanrepay.htm

Unfortunately, this is a highly competitive program, and while it will make an award of 60% of your total loan balance, that 60% is taxed at your income tax rate. For most NPs their adjusted gross income will put them in the 25% tax bracket. So in reality you get to keep .75 X .60 = 45% of your loan balance to pay off your loans. This of course does not account for state income tax.

Now look at the number of applications vs the number accepted into the program: (Source: http://bhpr.hrsa.gov/nursing/loanrepay.htm)

FY '07: 4711 applications 315 awards. Acceptance rate: 6.6%
FY '06: 4222 applications 373 awards. Acceptance rate: 8.8%
FY '05: 4465 applications 599 awards. Acceptance rate 13.4%

Notice the disturbing trend downwards as time goes by!

NLERP awards are by no means gauranteed to you. It;s better to just not spend the money in the first place!

[Alexandria8]

How funny this is. I must say that the inappropriateness of columbiaetep04's posts has done more than her whiny banter to convince me of Columbia's shortcomings. I really did laugh when I saw that she actually signed up for allnurses just to post that demoralizing little message...supposedly after years of nursing school. Hehe. You honestly never did the math columbiaetp04??? I suppose when I thought about it for myself I took into consideration that even subtracting $12,000 from my yearly salary as a Psych. NP would be considerably more than I would've made with other two year degrees, such as a LMHC or Social Worker, and I still would still be paying back the money that I'd spent to get those degrees...on a lesser salary. Not to mention the wider scope of practice that a NP has, blah, blah, blah. Everyone has their own justifications and I'm sorry that you did not plan ahead or have the capacity to understand what you were actually signing up for. Take it somewhere else though, WE DON'T CARE...and you so obviously do. I hope NOT to get a response from your sorry little self. Can't believe it's gone on this long really... I expected to see maybe one other message, but you honestly did take it there didn't you.

[SteveRN21]

Originally Posted by columbiaetp04

Stevern21:

What you are refering to is the Nursing Loan Education Repayment Program, which is managed by the U.S Department of Health and Human Services. There website is: http://bhpr.hrsa.gov/nursing/loanrepay.htm

Unfortunately, this is a highly competitive program, and while it will make an award of 60% of your total loan balance, that 60% is taxed at your income tax rate. For most NPs their adjusted gross income will put them in the 25% tax bracket. So in reality you get to keep .75 X .60 = 45% of your loan balance to pay off your loans. This of course does not account for state income tax.

Now look at the number of applications vs the number accepted into the program: (Source: http://bhpr.hrsa.gov/nursing/loanrepay.htm)

FY '07: 4711 applications 315 awards. Acceptance rate: 6.6%
FY '06: 4222 applications 373 awards. Acceptance rate: 8.8%
FY '05: 4465 applications 599 awards. Acceptance rate 13.4%

Notice the disturbing trend downwards as time goes by!

NLERP awards are by no means gauranteed to you. It;s better to just not spend the money in the first place!

Thanks for the info. To my knowledge, of the 3 that applied, 3 got it. If they're willing to pay up to 85% of my loans (albeit taxed) for a 3 year commitment, and I'm willing to work somewhere in exchange for it, why poo-pooh it? It's something!

Maybe you can post some positive experiences about your ETP program for those who are getting ready to start this month?

[smit1989]

columbiaetp04:

I am about to start the etp program next week. I want to tell you (since you seem to feel it is necessary to lecture us) that from the moment I started my applications to direct entry programs, I expected to have to take out a large amount of money in loans and have to pay them back for a long time. Despite this, I (and everyone else starting the program or a similar one) continued on with my applications, flew around for interviews, etc. etc. I chose to pursue a career as a NP realizing the cost of the education and the median salary of first year practitioners. I actually calculated what I figured to be my monthly payments after the three years of school (the last two of which I'll be working as an RN as often as possible- making a good chunk of money to support myself with) and also took into account the probable rise in the rate of my loan. DESPITE all of this, I chose to continue on with the program. Why do you think that is? It is what I want to do.

You seem to put a premium on salary. You complain about your "richer" friends. I think you chose the wrong career path. You are calling all of us idiots for not doing the research about repaying our large loans. Clearly, you were an idiot before you started the program by not doing the necessary research to figure out the financial burdens of pursuing this career (or any career in health care, really). Oscar is a weasel. I'll give you that..he's been most unhelpful so far. However, you don't need Oscar to figure out what you will be paying after you graduate. It is pretty simple math.

I appreciate you trying to give fair warning about the program, but you are being an ass. Everyone here knows what they are getting into. The thing is, even after the loan payment each month, we will be taking home a lot more than the average person, in an enjoyable and secure job. I'm sorry you can't buy your Benz or an apartment in Trump International yet. Most people with money have to work their way up over many years before they are financially comfortable. It's the way things are. I've accepted that. Now, lets get this thread back to the reason it was started: for us to HELP each other.

[columbiaetp04]

I think what's happening here is that a bunch of people are being confronted with the horrible truth about their decision. Columbia ETP is a horrible decision to make, and instead of accepting it, its easier to kill the messenger.

You cannot dispute the math, you are paying $115,000 - $120,000 for a degree you could get elsewhere for $20,000, and in exchange you get no better education or enhanced career opportunities.

I don't have to argue about this. You will agree with me in 2 - 3 years when you have to come up with $1000 to $1300 a month to send to Sallie Mae.

And SteveRN21: Way to not understand sample size! Even though you know 3 people who got NLERP, the majority of people who apply for it don't get it.

[columbiaetp04]

Smit1989

I never called anyone an idiot, and I don't appreciate being called an ass.

I speak from experience. Everyone I went through ETP with liked it while they were there. Then the bills came, and people applied for NLERP, and most people were rejected from NLERP.

Then frustration turns to anger. If you have a master's degree, you should be able support yourself at a middle class level. If you are paying your own way, and go through ETP, you will not be able to do so.

Congratulations on becoming a member of the working poor! Welcome aboard! I can use the company. At least you will have fun the next year or so. ETP classes were graded kinda of easy, so keeping your GPA up won't be hard.