[ZASHAGALKA]

Originally Posted by battpos

With all due respect to you, I will ask you to step and "think outside the box." The people who come to allnurses.com and read a thread such as this are in all likelihood, people who have made a very serious, deep commitment to the nursing profession.

Ok, I'll bite.

890 visitors so far have clicked on this thread. So, this is a relatively decent shot for your voice to be heard by those that share your 'very serious, deep commitment to the nursing profession'.

What would YOU call nursing, if not . . . nursing? And, how would you propose we formally 'adopt' such a name?

Not trying to be confrontational, just curious. I'm not convinced that nursing needs to have a name change to overcome your Erikson dilemma. I don't think a name change, by itself, will change the preconceptions and misconceptions about nursing. By contrast, I think time, example, and increased professionalism (with the benefits of such) will accomplish the same things you suggest a name change would do.

Words DO mean something, but we re-define words EVERYDAY. And our contribution to nursing is re-defining what it means to be a nurse. . . with every passing day.

Or, to quote Shakespeare: a rose by any other name . . .

But, I'm open to be convinced. Convince me. Start w/ the solution: what new name do you suggest?

~faith,
Timothy.

[Tweety]

Originally Posted by battpos

the word Nurse is extremely gender biased BECAUSE only women can breastfeed!

Additionally, you seem to be saying that if a woman said she was a mailman -- we would not know what she did for a living? That makes no sense.

If we were called nursewomen I would understand your point better.

The VERB nurse means to breastfeed among other things.

The NOUN nurse is not that gender biased. and doesn't mean "breastfeeders".

[Tweety]

Originally Posted by battpos

With all due respect to you, I will ask you to step and "think outside the box."

Battpos = Batterypositive

With all due respect to you, I have stepped outside my box to consider it. I even said in a post above that I needed to think on it a while. I'm one of the most open-minded persons I know.

You still haven't convinced me. Because I haven't been convinced, doesn't mean I'm stuck in my box and not seeing your point of view. I can do that and still not be convinced that we have to change the name.

It is your issue that you might have grappled with the nursing professional because nurse means to breastfeed. But I beg to differ that it is an issue with most adolescents. The issue with nursing with most adolscents is probably not that the verb means to breastfeed, but that it is a female dominated profession and there is a stereotype and male nurses are gay and feminine. Granted there may be some who struggle with the word itself, but for most American youth, I seriously doubt it. Perhaps changing the name of the profession would make more boys consider the profession, but it's not the name that is holding them back, in my opinion. That may be a small part of it, but as you said many of the people you come across don't realize the verb means to breastfeed, which means it didn't enter their mind.

I'm also very flexible. If the name is changed to something more gender neutral or politically correct, I can deal with that with ease.

[battpos]

But I beg to differ that it is an issue with most adolescents. The issue with nursing with most adolscents is probably not that the verb means to breastfeed, but that it is a female dominated profession and there is a stereotype and male nurses are gay and feminine. Granted there may be some who struggle with the word itself, but for most American youth, I seriously doubt it.
[/quote]

My hunch is that the word nurse does bother adolescent boys who are in the midst of making the big decision as to their career path. Your hunch is that it plays no role whatsoever in their decision to consider nursing; or perhaps it is a quite insignificant afterthought.
So it seems to me that the thing to do would be to utilize the scientific method to come to a decision as to whether it would be adventageous for the profession to adopt another name or to leave things be.
Do you have any suggestions as to how a survey question for that target group would be worded?
I appreciate any thoughts.

Battpos = Batterypositive

[battpos]

Originally Posted by ZASHAGALKA

Ok, I'll bite.

But, I'm open to be convinced. Convince me. Start w/ the solution: what new name do you suggest?

~faith,
Timothy.

As I mentioned; in my essay, I did come up with two words that I would propose be used to replace the word nursing. I have not been willing to share them because I would prefer to present them together with all my accompanying thoughts on the reasons I chose them.
Also, I do believe that it would not do me any good to share since the postings have for the most part expressed indifference or complete disagreement with my point of view.
The reason I mentioned that most people who read this thread are people who have made a very serious deep commitment to nursing is because I believe that's the explanation for such indifference. In other words, I believe my point of view would resonate with those people who I am saying are staying away alltogether from nursing -- those adolescent males who would not even want to in any way shape or form consider anything to do with nursing because nursing does not fit with their languaging and imaging in any way. I believe they would back me up in my statement that the word nursing is repulsive to them because it is an extremely femenine word that instantly brings up a vision in one's mind of a mother nursing.

Battpos = Batterypositive

[ZASHAGALKA]

Originally Posted by battpos

As I mentioned; in my essay, I did come up with two words that I would propose be used to replace the word nursing. I have not been willing to share them because I would prefer to present them together with all my accompanying thoughts on the reasons I chose them.
Also, I do believe that it would not do me any good to share since the postings have for the most part expressed indifference or complete disagreement with my point of view.
The reason I mentioned that most people who read this thread are people who have made a very serious deep commitment to nursing is because I believe that's the explanation for such indifference. In other words, I believe my point of view would resonate with those people who I am saying are staying away alltogether from nursing -- those adolescent males who would not even want to in any way shape or form consider anything to do with nursing because nursing does not fit with their languaging and imaging in any way. I believe they would back me up in my statement that the word nursing is repulsive to them because it is an extremely femenine word that instantly brings up a vision in one's mind of a mother nursing.

Battpos = Batterypositive

Maybe your opinion WOULD resonate more with those on the outside looking in.

However, changing the name of 'nurse' would have to be done ON THE INSIDE looking out. You state, because those of us on the inside are already committed, we are more or less indifferent to a name change.

That might be true. But, to the extent that it IS true, your concept is a lost cause. If you want to gain ANY ground here, you must first convince those 'committed' to the field. If nurses themselves do not embrace a name change, then there simply won't BE a name change.

So, it sounds like you have an uphill battle.

I will again state that I don't believe the problem is in a name, but rather, the misconceptions and preconceptions that people have. Words mean something, they do. But this word, nurse, is being re-defined on a daily basis. And, as the word is re-defined, so are the mis and pre conceptions, hopefully, for the better.

[Tweety]

Originally Posted by battpos

My hunch is that the word nurse does bother adolescent boys who are in the midst of making the big decision as to their career path. Your hunch is that it plays no role whatsoever in their decision to consider nursing; or perhaps it is a quite insignificant afterthought.
So it seems to me that the thing to do would be to utilize the scientific method to come to a decision as to whether it would be adventageous for the profession to adopt another name or to leave things be.
Do you have any suggestions as to how a survey question for that target group would be worded?
I appreciate any thoughts.

Battpos = Batterypositive

Yes, I am saying that the connection with breastfeeding doesn't play much into their decision.

No, I don't have any suggestions on how to survey if the word "nurse" is a negative influence in adolescent males when considering professions in which to work. It does seem that there are not many males going into nursing right after highschool around here. Most of the male nursing students I see in clincals are older.

While I'm not convinced. Perhaps you are onto to something that a kid would feel more comfortable himself and telling friends and family "I'm going to be a Registered Health Care Provider", or some gender neutral phrase, rather than "I'm going to be a nurse". This takes away the feminine images that pop into people's heads. I still say part of that feminine images that pop into their heads is not breastfeeding. However, I'm sure you're not alone in your thinking.

Good luck in all you do.

[Corvette Guy]

Originally Posted by Roy Fokker

I just don't see any reason to interject the sex of a worker in any field.

"Yes, the male DA will speak to the female judge and will let your male lawyer know about your case."

"Yes, two female cops pulled up in a car, which was followed by the fire department truck. Two female firefighters and one male fire chief went into the burning building and pulled out two kids".

"You'll be admitted. The female anesthesiologist will come and talk to you before the male surgeon".

It's not that it bothers me or not (maybe it does. Frankly I don't really know).

I just don't see the point in it. Being called "nurse" is good enough for me

I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. I often hear the phrases "female police officer", or "female firefighter" on the evening news while watching television. Many professions exist that are gender dominated, i.e. the majority of police officers are males & the majority of firefighters are males, too, etc. My point being when an individual is in a career field that is predominantly opposite of such individual's gender it is very appropriate for clarities sake to give recognition of one's gender, i.e. a female police officer, a female firefighter, a male nurse.

[romie]

An observation I would like to share:

I wonder if the issue of men in nursing would be lessened if men who practice nursing were not percieved to be gay? It seems to me that based on the statements made in this forum that the issue is less that men who practice nursing are encroaching a female dominated field but more that men who practice nursing are percieved as gay.

Homophobia in our society is so rampant that it isn't the actual private behavior of an individual that is so upsetting to homophobes, but the APPEARANCE of an individual that would classify them as gay.

This obsession with appearances is so extreme! When I studied music in college, some ignorant people believed that certain instruments were for women only and that a man who played that instrument must definitley be gay. I found this to be hysterical that people thought that men who played flute were gay because only in the past 50 years were women even allowed to play flutes professionally in the major orchestras. To this day, the majority of professional flute players in the major orchestras are men!

I think it is less of a gender issue and boils down to homophobia! What is wrong with a gay male nurse? What is wrong with a butch lesbian cop?

[johny1]

Originally Posted by romie

I think it is less of a gender issue and boils down to homophobia! What is wrong with a gay male nurse? What is wrong with a butch lesbian cop?

Nothing.....unless you are assumed to be a gay male nurse or a lesbian cop and you are straight

Yes it has nothing to do with men taking over a female dominated field, and everything to do with peoples perception.

Heterosexual men are attracted to feminine women and heterosexual women are attracted to masculine men.

Because of peoples perceptions of male nurses or female cops they will hopefully have some redeeming masculine/feminine traits to offset the assumed stereotypes of their professions if they are straight.

If not will dating and relationships outside of nursing or policing be more difficult?