[earle58]

Originally Posted by jbeau

Do you HONESTLY think the average man is going to be turned on by a screaming pregnant woman?

i don't know about the screaming part, but many men (and women) find a pregnant female absolutely beautiful.

disclaimer: the aforementioned, does NOT mean that male nurses get turned on.

leslie

[wallalame]

Originally Posted by jbeau

Seriously, the only reason women here are OK with this is because THEY aren't being discriminated against. True Feminists would be OUTRAGED at this.

As nurses, we are taught to view the body as medical and NOT sexual in these contexts. Sorry, but there is nothing sexual about giving a physical or checking up on a woman as she is dilating.

If this were about 90% of men refusing to have a female nurse, women would be UP IN ARMS. Same thing goes for race, class, etc. The women in this thread are only fine with it because they aren't being actively discriminated against.

Should a patient be able to request a different nurse than me because I am gay? Give me a break.

I consider myself to be a true feminist. I am in association with Eve Ensler, the author of "The Vagina Monologues" who is the founder of V-Day, the NPO to stop violence against women all over the world. Although I do not speak for her, she is my hero for her work in the Congo. I am very interested in womens' issues and am doing my part to protect the health, dignity and safety of women in The Democratic Republic of Congo, as well as their children.

Quite frankly, while it cannot be denied that this issue is discrimination, I do not consider it a problem. Male nurses busting down the doors of the OB is simply another form of bullying women and trying to make them feel obligated to let men they don't know care for their intimate needs. The reason that women would be "UP IN ARMS" if 90% of men refused female nurses is because THAT HAS NEVER AND WOULD NEVER HAPPEN. Generally, no one is afraid of a woman offering to care, nor should they be. Women, as a population, are not associated with violence, sex crimes or pedophillia. A "screaming pregnant woman," as stated before, sounds very undignified and that is just the sort of thing sex criminals seem to be interested in... I don't know why, but we all know that no one reddies their pepper-spray nozzle when they see an average woman on the street at night.

That said, patients simply CANNOT be expected to know all their rights and many nurses in the OB can be bullying enough (such as in the case of the man who told his female patient that him being a male nurse is the least of her concerns). Even a patient who knows her rights and does not feel comfortable, will inevitably be treated by a male nurse because she feels too ashamed to speak up.

[wallalame]

By the way, women KNOW their doctors. Often, we meet our nurse when their shift starts.

That is one of the things that makes nursing so amazing and special.

Ooh! Ooh!! I almost forgot to mention the whole reason I am interested in the male nurse topic! My husband will be an amazing nurse someday. He starts his first pre-nursing class in January!!!! So excited and proud of him.

[wallalame]

Originally Posted by GIRN

...this is a human feeling, being shy about exposing your genitalia to a stranger, and we shouldn't try to politicize it or try to shame women for feeling shy. There's nothing wrong with having some differences between the sexes....

Believe me, feminists do not speak for all females!

You are right, but the way feminists have been portrayed in this discussion is completely incorrect...The comfort of the female and her privacy IS A HUGE PRIORITY to many feminists, myself included. There are A LOT of people who try to make feminism sound bad - even if they act like they are for it... a woman's right to privacy is absolutely a priority. Feminism is pretty simple like that.

I really like what you said in your post, too. I imagine anyone who truly cares about females would agree with that. That was truly beautiful and inspiring.

[EricEnfermero]

Originally Posted by wallalame

Generally, no one is afraid of a woman offering to care, nor should they be. Women, as a population, are not associated with violence, sex crimes or pedophillia.

Now, here's the next step in the logical progression of this line of thinking: Let's say we knew that certain races and ethnicities were associated with an increasd incidence of violent crime.

Would we then not allow members of those races to bust down the OB doors, since we would probably conclude that no one would likely be afraid of a white nurse?

[jbeau]

Yes, that "logical" thinking was certainly flawed.

There are a disproportionate number of minorities in prison. I guess we should stop them from being nurses because they might assault patients!

If hospitals are going to hold this policy for men, then women should be restricted from being a man's nurse when it involves his private areas too. FAIR and EQUAL treatment. If they are still allowed to work with testicular and prostate cancer patients as well as male urology cases, then men should be able to work in L&D and OB without any discrimination.

[wallalame]

Originally Posted by EricEnfermero

Now, here's the next step in the logical progression of this line of thinking: Let's say we knew that certain races and ethnicities were associated with an increasd incidence of violent crime.

Would we then not allow members of those races to bust down the OB doors, since we would probably conclude that no one would likely be afraid of a white nurse?

No, that is actually NOT the "next step in the logical progression of this line of thinking" but I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for making me realize something really cool...let me explain. First of all, of the populations where sexual crime is the highest, even then, the perpetrators involved are catigorically men. Race and ethnicity do not play into the gender equation...BUT read on...

I am not a man-hater. In order to be wise, we absolutely MUST use discression sometimes, especially when it comes to issues of the vagina and female psyche. I help to protect women's rights and dignity, regardless of their race or ethnicity. Which is something I should have in common not only with men, but with all nurses, whether you are male or female. My husband, who is going to be a nurse, actually agrees with every word I have said here, and I really value his opinion. So does my brother. I am so thankful for their support here with me. Best guys you'd ever meet.

For those men already working in the OB, I do not mean to pass any judgement, nor do I mean to insinuate that you don't belong where you are. You are very fortunate to have that opportunity and I hope that you help to preserve the fact that a male in the OB is a very high priveledge and not easily attained.

And for other men who hope to get into OB or Gyn, I STRONGLY recomend possibly offering your services over-seas if you can. They need nurses badly in parts of Africa. Look up Panzi Hospital and you might be inspired. I don't know for sure, but I doubt Dr. Mukwege would turn you away. I am sure you would return to the states with the respect and trust and perspective to get a job in almost any OB floor.

My HUSBAND hopes to spend some time helping women over-seas someday. I support this 100%. His heart is in the right place.

Please let me know if that possibility inspires anyone! It would do my heart so much good.

Peace and Love to all!

[wallalame]

Originally Posted by jbeau

Yes, that "logical" thinking was certainly flawed.

There are a disproportionate number of minorities in prison. I guess we should stop them from being nurses because they might assault patients!

If hospitals are going to hold this policy for men, then women should be restricted from being a man's nurse when it involves his private areas too. FAIR and EQUAL treatment. If they are still allowed to work with testicular and prostate cancer patients as well as male urology cases, then men should be able to work in L&D and OB without any discrimination.

jbeau, men are NOT typically more or less comfortable with a woman caring for their private areas, and the issue of nurse-gender-preference in this area greatly differs from man to man. Men are simply less discriminate on this issue and with reason. Women are far - FAR - less likely to even desire a "free peek," let alone any other simple perversion. THAT IS NOT TO SAY MOST MEN actually would be "bad" in an OB setting. That is just simply the patient's perspective and we must be sensitive to that. For that matter, as a whole, patients are not concerned with race. But they are STILL concerned with men in the OB. As stated before, this has nothing to do with race. FAIR and EQUAL treatment in the work-force simply fails to make health-care ammendments on the male/female issues. Thank Heavens the hospitals are typically sensitive to their patients. But two things are for sure:
1.)Men DO belong in nursing.
2.)Diversity is a NECESSITY in nursing.

[nursemike]

[quote=wallalame;2552574]You are right, but the way feminists have been portrayed in this discussion is completely incorrect...The comfort of the female and her privacy IS A HUGE PRIORITY to many feminists, myself included. There are A LOT of people who try to make feminism sound bad - even if they act like they are for it... a woman's right to privacy is absolutely a priority. Feminism is pretty simple like that./quote]

I consider myself a Mary Wallstonecraft feminist: I believe the heart of feminism is a person's right to an equal opportunity to pursue the career of her/his choice and be treated equitably in the workplace, to live independantly and enjoy the same fundamental rights as anyone else. That includes the same rights to privacy as anyone else, and surely the right to be secure in one's person is about as fundamental as it gets...but: that right to privacy/comfort/security, important as it is, is not so sacrosanct that the rights of a whole class of society should be subverted, just to guard against the possibility that someone might feel nervous about asserting her right to request a female nurse if one is available.

Implications that x percentage of men are sex criminals, so all men are
x percent sex criminal, images of men breaking down doors and forcing themselves on helpless women, and the idea that women have been victims of discrimination, so now it's men's turn, may reflect a form of feminism, but in my not-so-humble opinion, it's a very sexist and devisive form.

These issues are not unique to OB. In my med/surg practice, I usually care for both male and female patients. In that setting, I occassionally meet patients who aren't comfortable with a male performing some aspects of their care, but perfectly happy to let me pass meds, do assessments, and anything else not too intimate. For baths and toileting, it's usually not a problem to find a female aide, and if a foley needs placed, one or another of my female peers will help out. (Of course, the opportunity for me to reciprocate by performing intimate care on her shy male patients would not exist in OB, but there would be other situations where I could return the favor--lifting help, for example, or starting an IV.)

My point, though, isn't that it's possible, with enough jumping through hoops, to accommodate a male nurse on a unit. Rather, my experience has been that nearly every patient I've had who had modesty issues when we met was happy to let me provide whatever care she needed by the end of the shift, and some have said they would ask for a male nurse from now on. Mind you, I am not an exceptionally good nurse, or an unusually great guy. I'm a decent guy, and a decent nurse, and the patients who are exposed to me have the opportunity to learn that some--I would say most--male nurses are decent, caring people.

And the only way patients will ever learn that is by being exposed to male nurses.

I share the view of some early nursing leaders that nursing can be an important engine of feminist reform. I very much enjoy the strong, intelligent, independent women with whom I work, as well as the compassionate, sensitive men. I think we as a profession, and we as individuals, will profit enormously by learning to project ourselves as strong, intelligent, independent, compassionate, sensitive people.

[jbeau]

Thank you nursemike, exactly the point I was trying to drive home!!

Patients SHOULD be able to request a female nurse for personal things if they want, just as males should. But hospitals should NOT bar someone from working on OB because they have a penis.