[edeverges]

would you please explain to everyone you interpretation of what "those isolated incidents of 'appealing' to physicians thereby advancing our status" means? i recently started working for a male physician and for the first time i felt like i was put in a position were i was ignored so i supported a female co-worker who was able to "appeal" to the physician before any further discussion took place. is that part of what you mean?

Originally Posted by Crumbwannabe

Hello

Gee, how do I say this? Pizza, beer, farts and football. We have thus far devoted 5 pages to making the male nurse in the image of Beavis and Butthead. I think we better get serious or drop the whole thing. Personally, I abhor football, except for Superbowl parties in which I do most of the cooking, I don't fart in front of my dear wife, or anyone else if I can avoid it, and my beer taste runs toward the 'too expensive' imports. I don't consider myself an elitist, I'm just wondering if we are meandering around issues until someone takes the plunge, and we can finally discuss professional issues. So I'll kick it off....

Why can't we participate in those isolated incidents of 'appealing' to physicians thereby advancing our status? Whoa! Sorry, 'dear wife' is calling me to go to Walmart with her NOW, so I must finish this thought later, given that I don't cut off any fingers with power tools.....

[Crumbwannabe]

Originally Posted by edeverges

would you please explain to everyone you interpretation of what "those isolated incidents of 'appealing' to physicians thereby advancing our status" means? i recently started working for a male physician and for the first time i felt like i was put in a position were i was ignored so i supported a female co-worker who was able to "appeal" to the physician before any further discussion took place. is that part of what you mean?

Appealing comes in many forms. I shared an intrest in philosophy with a cardiologist and we had many great talks during E/P studies. I also memorize jokes well, and have had working relationships enhanced with docs swapping shaggy dog stories. But these examples did nil to advance my career, nor did I expect them to.

On the other hand, I have had a couple of situations where I could not figure why I was somehow excluded from segments of male nurses/male docs even though we shared interests, only to have it explained by my co-workers that my gender preferences weren't compatible. And these were not rumor as I came to learn.

A guy I worked with had a doc come over to his house for steaks and football while his wife was on vacation, and in the course of the evening had the doc walk in on him in the bathroom asking if he could 'hold it for him'. The doc even presented him with a tube of KY. When my friend asked the doc to leave, guess who became the outsider?

Another occasion, working with a doc one day, he made the comment out of the blue, that 'so-and -so' was a very good, very capable nurse, but she didn't afford him the 'respect' he felt he deserved, so he made sure she was driven from the department. I can't remember exactly how he said it, but it could be translated that she didn't treat him like the god he thinks he is. I think this was a warning to me, in a veiled way, that I was falling short on my worship, as I didn't particularly defer to him.

So if you think I am speaking of only females charming their way into the favor of the right people, I'm not. Too many docs crave the (percieved) power and ego stroking, and with exceptions, don't get this from the male nurse. Curiously, however, I do not see this behavior on the part of female docs toward male nurses.

Sad state of affairs. Too many Tanya Hardings....

[edeverges]

well i guess that is what i thought you meant, oratleast i was afraid that was what you meant. i have worked with both male and female physicians and i have to agree that the majority of physician's that expect/ demand respect through eith coersion or exploitation tend to me male as a majority. i have worked with many male physicians who are willing to discuss issues about the health care trade or discuss patrient issues with the nursing staff, but at leastwhileonthejobinsistonbeing call doc. on theother handiwork with a female physician atthe present time who insist on having me call her by her first name. i am a little guarded about doing this expecially aroujd the male physicians. as i think they would get the impression that i do not show the amount of respect they would expect. anyway i likemy job and do not feel like i have to give up my principles. somainly i focus on my work and try to avoid title and names, orget too personal.

Crumbwannabe]Appealing comes in many forms. I shared an intrest in philosophy with a cardiologist and we had many great talks during E/P studies. I also memorize jokes well, and have had working relationships enhanced with docs swapping shaggy dog stories. But these examples did nil to advance my career, nor did I expect them to.

On the other hand, I have had a couple of situations where I could not figure why I was somehow excluded from segments of male nurses/male docs even though we shared interests, only to have it explained by my co-workers that my gender preferences weren't compatible. And these were not rumor as I came to learn.

A guy I worked with had a doc come over to his house for steaks and football while his wife was on vacation, and in the course of the evening had the doc walk in on him in the bathroom asking if he could 'hold it for him'. The doc even presented him with a tube of KY. When my friend asked the doc to leave, guess who became the outsider?

Another occasion, working with a doc one day, he made the comment out of the blue, that 'so-and -so' was a very good, very capable nurse, but she didn't afford him the 'respect' he felt he deserved, so he made sure she was driven from the department. I can't remember exactly how he said it, but it could be translated that she didn't treat him like the god he thinks he is. I think this was a warning to me, in a veiled way, that I was falling short on my worship, as I didn't particularly defer to him.

So if you think I am speaking of only females charming their way into the favor of the right people, I'm not. Too many docs crave the (percieved) power and ego stroking, and with exceptions, don't get this from the male nurse. Curiously, however, I do not see this behavior on the part of female docs toward male nurses.

Sad state of affairs. Too many Tanya Hardings....[/quote]

[nursemike]

Originally Posted by Crumbwannabe

Hello

Gee, how do I say this? Pizza, beer, farts and football. We have thus far devoted 5 pages to making the male nurse in the image of Beavis and Butthead. I think we better get serious or drop the whole thing. Personally, I abhor football, except for Superbowl parties in which I do most of the cooking, I don't fart in front of my dear wife, or anyone else if I can avoid it, and my beer taste runs toward the 'too expensive' imports. I don't consider myself an elitist, I'm just wondering if we are meandering around issues until someone takes the plunge, and we can finally discuss professional issues. So I'll kick it off....

Why can't we participate in those isolated incidents of 'appealing' to physicians thereby advancing our status? Whoa! Sorry, 'dear wife' is calling me to go to Walmart with her NOW, so I must finish this thought later, given that I don't cut off any fingers with power tools.....

You raise some interesting questions that deserve discussion, but I kinda thought "Role call" might be an appropriate forum for some levity, beyond just "Here."

Granted, some of us, including me, have been guilty of perpetuating that "Beavis and Butthead" stereotype. At the risk of getting serious, I think I have embraced my inner Butthead. I think I can be both passionate about caring for others and a goofball--sometimes simultaneously!

Hmmm. It does occur to me that all this belching and farting and beer and pizza could indicate some inner insecurities about our roles as men in a traditionally "feminine" field. Do I scratch because they itch, or just to remind myself they're there?
But I was quite fond of beer and pizza as a carpenter, too, and beer and pizza make me belch and fart.
(But I'll take a pint of Bass over a case of Bud, any day.)

[Crumbwannabe]

Originally Posted by nursemike?

You raise some interesting questions that deserve discussion, but I kinda thought "Role call" might be an appropriate forum for some levity, beyond just "Here."

Granted, some of us, including me, have been guilty of perpetuating that "Beavis and Butthead" stereotype. At the risk of getting serious, I think I have embraced my inner Butthead. I think I can be both passionate about caring for others and a goofball--sometimes simultaneously!

Hmmm. It does occur to me that all this belching and farting and beer and pizza could indicate some inner insecurities about our roles as men in a traditionally "feminine" field. Do I scratch because they itch, or just to remind myself they're there?
But I was quite fond of beer and pizza as a carpenter, too, and beer and pizza make me belch and fart.
(But I'll take a pint of Bass over a case of Bud, any day.)

Gosh, you're right...I recognize, just dimly, confess my inner Butthead. I have disowned him in some mistaken, Jungian way. I need a seminar, or maybe a group to learn to own my personal Butthead.

We could write books and go on Ophra and Maury Povich.

We scratch them because it feels so darn good. Especially when you're the pitcher, or left fielder walking in after the last out of the inning. Note that the catcher doesn't have this option what with the protective gear, and NO hockey players do it. Ad infinitum.

[Havin' A Party!]

Just dropped in before starting to study for a final exam (NUR II) on Monday and discovered... we've got our own forum. Cool!

Great job, Brian!

OK, let's get this party started!

[BobL]

I must say that for the most part, in my day to day practice, I don't even consider my gender. My interaction with others is based on who I am not on my gender. That being said, certainly there are some times when gender affects what I do.

It is worth remembering that we (as males) are becoming a larger percentage of what is really one of the few professions that women have have been mostly responsible for advancing. I can understand how that could create animosity on some level.

I do think that often we to have an easier time relating with male M.D.'s. There have been many times when I have called the doc for orders and have noticed that I seem to get what I am seeking with less questioning from the doc than some of my female co-workers. This is not all docs and not all of the time but it is noticable. Some of this may be because I am prepared, have completed the necessary assessments, reviewed H&P,and have a rationale for what I am requesting. It is quite clear at times however that I have an easier time of it because I am male. I have had nurses ask me to call certain M.D.'s because "he doesn't give you a hard time" or "he always gives you what you want".

When it comes to patient care, I rarely have any problems while caring for female patients. I am sure that some of this is due to the fact that most of my female patients are elderly which creates a different dynamic than it would if I was caring for woman in there 20's and 30's. However, as a hospice nurse, I have also cared for many women in there 40's and 50's. I have not run into a situation where I had to turn the case over to another nurse because of my gender which I would do in a heartbeat if I felt it was what the patient wanted.

Just a few observations.

[nursemike]

Originally Posted by Crumbwannabe

Gosh, you're right...I recognize, just dimly, confess my inner Butthead. I have disowned him in some mistaken, Jungian way. I need a seminar, or maybe a group to learn to own my personal Butthead.

We could write books and go on Ophra and Maury Povich.

We scratch them because it feels so darn good. Especially when you're the pitcher, or left fielder walking in after the last out of the inning. Note that the catcher doesn't have this option what with the protective gear, and NO hockey players do it. Ad infinitum.

Hey, I've got our title! Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus, Nurses Are From Earth.

(I was going to say "Male Nurses", but most of the gals I've met in the biz have been pretty down-to-earth, too.)

I think the book tour would be just the start...this could turn into a movement! Nurses all over the country--the world!--could get together and...and what? Oh, I've got it!
Drink beer and eat pizza! Maybe at a bowling alley! And when we were all fat and happy and scratching ourselves, we could figure out solutions to all the problems of today's nurses...

[Crumbwannabe]

Originally Posted by nursemike?

Hey, I've got our title! Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus, Nurses Are From Earth...Brevity)...Drink beer and eat pizza! Maybe at a bowling alley! And when we were all fat and happy and scratching ourselves, we could figure out solutions to all the problems of today's nurses...

I haven't kept enough data to support the hypothesis, but probably Dr. Phil has. Has anyone noticed that the first thing guys from 5 to 500 yrs old do is reach for Cap'n Howdy (or John Thomas if you will) postoperatively? It may be one of the primative reflexes, (the Johnson response?) or one of those things like sneezing when you look at the sun. (Did Ray Charles sneeze when he looked at the sun? It wasn't addressed in the film. Did some marvelous IV therapy though.) We may have a different Glascow by virtue of gender.

Also, what makes Rachael Ray on the Food Channel so hot? She could mince my garlic anyday. I think it's the 'shelf' effect of the tight jeans....

BTW how far can we go with our round table discussion? See, I tried to be serious earlier, and look what I get for going out with the guys just one time....I'll be sleeping on the couch with crumbled Budweiser cans on the floor before I know it...Rrrrrrrrrrrp

[Crumbwannabe]

Oh man, I almost forgot....

Yesterday at work I was scourged with a cat-o-nine-tails, hung from the missenmast and finally keel-hauled over 12 hours and didn't even get a break...arrrg.

Anyhow I come home on my peg leg, beat, dead, I go to bed, and wake up to these eerie lights. The dog burrowed under the covers and licked herself. (I would have too, but my back hurt. And the dog wouldn't have let me anyway.) They gave me Versed and I dimly remember being aboard a craft. All the 'females' had these jacket/skirt combos and high heels, and the 'men' wore red ties and blue blazers and wire glasses. They were making nurses into...oh my God...into... administrators!!! They do this complete comlicated neutering/pheromone removal operation where they can only bond with a being of equal or higher level. (Nor would anyone else want to) It wasn't like the Coneheads exactly. Then they program them to repeat 12 different phrases in certain timbres of voice, any other communication being monotone. Among the administrators themselves, talk is apparently telepathic. H/R policies are then uploaded into their brain with more matricies than a Bobby Fischer chess game. Key words such as 'inundated' rather than 'busy', or 'orientated' rather than 'oriented' were repetatively drilled into them. and also 'I'm in a meeting' if I remember right.

I remember being given a choice of a red or blue pill with the understanding of being salaried and getting a bottle of $7.00 champagne at Christmas, as well as my own pager...number published. And they'd say my name a lot over the paging system. I remember I refused...the next thing I know I was in my bed with the phone ringing and my shift being cancelled...by someone in a monotone voice. It could have been one of them.

I know no one will believe me...but I know what I saw...

"Klatu, Verada, Nikto"