[wymnwise]

Originally Posted by GilaRN

Hmm, ok then. Perhaps it is time for a vacation. Get out, smell the flowers, enjoy life a bit?

I live in the forest, so I do that every day, but thanks for thinkin' of me. It is time for change, thats what.

So, after you read up on how man men find rape erotic, if you need research on male doctors and there propensity to offend relative to the gen. pop. let me know. If you just google news patient rape, you will find an abundance of cases where women have been raped by medical staff.

After you get an idea how safe or unsafe women may be in reality, tell me what would you think of a lawsuit against a team of students, doctors, nurses, who in spite of a woman's repeated requests not to have males involved in her care while she was under anesthesia for a mastectomy, or GYN surgery, or a colonoscopy for that matter, spoted memory, medical records, and one eye witness indicates that her request was violated in large numbers.

[wymnwise]

Leslie,
These young men grow into older men. Most offending medical staff are between the ages of 35 and 50. Read the reasearch links I offered GilaRN. It is not about hormones and lack of maturity, it is about sexism. The research I provide links to looks at the relationships between sexist ideas and attitudes/behaviors.

[Marvie]

I am bothered by some of the responders comments about this incident. First of all, where was the circulating RN? Why did the RN allow the doctor to do this to the unconcious patient? What type of panties was she wearing...granny panties? If the tattoo was on her belly, and she had surgery for a herniated disc, then why was the belly chosen as the site? Second of all, that patient has every right to feel violated since under anesthesia one is totally vulnerable to anything and if the doctor did that, what else did he do? Those questions should not have to be endured by a recovering surgical patient. The surgeon chose to act unbecoming and those who think he did nothing wrong need to place themselves into that patients position.They might change their minds once it happens to them.

[Grace Oz]

[quote][/QUWe encourage rape as a weapon of war. Soldiers and Private contractors rape and torture our own women.
OTE]

As the mother of a serving deployed soldier, I take GREAT offense at this statement!!!!

Making a generalised statement such as you have is insulting and denigrating to those who serve with GREAT HONOUR, DIGNITY, RESPECT and DECENCY!!

I'll accept your FORTHCOMING apology.

[csason]

As a man and the father of four girls and two boys, not only have I NEVER..
not even for a second, thought about subjecting a woman to an act she might not want..I am going to unsubscribe from this here thread..

The first and foremost thing that this patient should have done, if it wasn't was to report the doc to the AMA, and if he (or she) was board certified, the board.

Second offense, let him (or her) wash cars.

If I drew a rose on a patient, I'd expect to be fired and lose my license..Why should it be any different for God..I mean the doc.

[wymnwise]

Originally Posted by csason

As a man and the father of four girls and two boys, not only have I NEVER..
not even for a second, thought about subjecting a woman to an act she might not want..I am going to unsubscribe from this here thread..

The first and foremost thing that this patient should have done, if it wasn't was to report the doc to the AMA, and if he (or she) was board certified, the board.

Second offense, let him (or her) wash cars.

If I drew a rose on a patient, I'd expect to be fired and lose my license..Why should it be any different for God..I mean the doc.

Thank you for who you are; but why unsubscribe to this thread? If one of your daughters requested, "No males" for GYN surgery; would you be offended if they violated that request? What if she had hx of mistreatment? Would the reqest be reasonable then? Does her feeling of security not matter? The point is not that ALL males rape, but that enough men are abusive that a reasonable woman may well not want men taking care of her while she is under anesthesia. I have to say, I am old and have had many a male docs. pokin' around down there. Still, do not want them doin' it while I am sedated. Sorry if that offends you. But you may be shocked at how many women have had unpleasent experiences with male care providers. 10% of male physicians are reported to cross sexual lines with patients. As most cases go unreported, and more occure while sedated, the unreported offenses are most likely very high.

[wymnwise]

I find it interesting that those who think this is no big deal, and those who think women should have no right to "discriminate" against male providers while under anesthesia do not seem to take the time to read anything offered. Self censored education is still a censored education, or rather lack of education.

[wymnwise]

Originally Posted by Marvie

I am bothered by some of the responders comments about this incident. First of all, where was the circulating RN? Why did the RN allow the doctor to do this to the unconcious patient? What type of panties was she wearing...granny panties? If the tattoo was on her belly, and she had surgery for a herniated disc, then why was the belly chosen as the site? Second of all, that patient has every right to feel violated since under anesthesia one is totally vulnerable to anything and if the doctor did that, what else did he do? Those questions should not have to be endured by a recovering surgical patient. The surgeon chose to act unbecoming and those who think he did nothing wrong need to place themselves into that patients position.They might change their minds once it happens to them.

Marvie,
Thanks so much. You get it!!! As a surgical patient who must endure many unanswered questions, thank you!!! (The gift I was given was worse than a tattoo.)

[withasmilelpn]

Ok, even given the facts that wymmwise has quoted, (which I myself have read), I STILL don't think money is an appropriate penalty. I would much rather see a suspension of priviledges or outright firing. There is a lot of truth unfortunately to what she is saying. But, it also sounds as is she has personal reasons for feeling like she does as well. I am not saying I don't have sympathy, I absolutely do. Our experiences color our perception of reality. All of us have different boundries and different ways of coping with the challenges life throw out at us. I was attacked by another boy when I was a kid, who didn't want to take no for ananswer. But fortunately for me, he didn't go through with it. So I know for one thing, I am fortunate, and another not to be naive, it can be a dangerous world for women. That said, I probably would've laughed at the tatoo. People have different sets of boundries. What violates one person will not necesarily bother someone else. (Like my sisters have no problem allowing everybody in the BR with them so they finish what ever they are chatting about, for me give me my PRIVACY please! Including my sweet kids - please leave mommy alone in just this one place!) I think as professionals taking care of a variety of different people we have an obligation to be sensitive and aware that our behavior matters. The Doctor clearly needs some education, appropriate punishment and close supervision to make sure that he is not in fact a danger. As far as wymmwise, while again I sympathize, do I think it was unrealistic that she would not have male health care providers at some point during surgery, yep. It might have been more realistic to have insisted a trusted friend be present the entire time. It is not fair to catagorize an entire group based on theory or even a bad experience. There are good men in this world, just like there are bad. And I do question that the study of college students did not poll a wide span group of ages. cultural backgrounds and from varying locations. I think it makes the study's validity questionable at best.

[SmilingBluEyes]

I find this positively creepy. An extensive review and suspension while they determine his stability are in order. And apology to the patient, definitely in order! It's highly inappropriate and like I said, just downright weird and creepy.