[brian]

Nurses at Virginia Mason Medical Center claimed a win in their battle with the hospital and its demand that the nurses get flu shots. The National Labor Relations Board (NLRB), after receiving a complaint from the nurses' union, has issued a complaint to the hospital.

Nurses who didn't get the shots were required to wear face masks or lose their jobs, the union said.

According to a statement issued by the Washington State Nurses Association, the NLRB issued a complaint and a notice of hearing to the center "for engaging in unfair labor practices against the registered nurses." The union filed the complaint in January. A hearing on the complaint is set for next month.

In early January, the U.S. District Court in Seattle sided with an arbitrator in ruling that the hospital violated a union contract when it ordered nurses to get the shots or get fired. Later that month, Virginia Mason said it would appeal that court ruling to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit.

Full Story: Virginia Mason nurses claim a win in flu shot dispute [Bizjournals.com,NC]

[SmilingBluEyes]

A win for CHOICE! I do not believe anyone should be immunized against his/her will----well w/the exception of military, I guess. I even have issues with that...

[KeithEMU]

One way to get around vaccine requirements is a religious exemption. You don't even legally need to name your religion as that is a violation of privacy for an employer to ask your religious affiliation.
www.vaccineinfo.net/exemptions/relexemptlet.shtml

Most info out there is about children and vaccines, but religous exemptions apply to adults too. Many states have exemptions for philosophical reasons as well.

[ZASHAGALKA]

This just doesn't say much about unions, if you ask me.

If you have such a contentious relationship w/ management that you have to go to court about something so simple, all I can say is: wow!

I had the right to accept or refuse a flu shot all along (I normally take one). Here's the thing: I didn't have to pay dues, and I didn't have to sabre-rattle to get this right.

I just can't see a hospital passing such a rule in a non-union shop. Such a rule would engender a measurable turnover in a non-union shop, as some employees fled such an arbitrary decision. Such turnover (voting with your feet) is a real consideration when non-union shops pass such rules. And that turnover is a real cost that limits the arbitrariness of such rules.

For a union shop: they can collectively hold you hostage to such rules. I'm glad that union was able to win in court. I just think that the only reason it had to go to court was BECAUSE it was a union shop.

~faith,
Timothy.

[HM2Viking]

I respectfully disagree with your point. It was a matter of management failing to bargain in good faith with their employees. Work rules are subject to the collective bargaining process. I find your belief in the "free" market of labor relations to be naive. In a non-union shop management can unilaterally impose workrules on a whim with no employee recourse. It sounds to me like this was a case of a management team that decided to do just that.

From my reading of the initial post it sounds like the union used the contractually negotiated grievance/arbitration process. The employer refused to comply with the ruling of the arbitrator and the union used the court system to enforce a legally binding labor agreement.

In your assertion of the free market protecting nonunion employees from arbitrary work rules there would have been no grievance process, no arbitration and no legally binding employment agreement setting basic standards of dignity and respect between managers and employees. Individual employees would have had to sue in court to obtain protection and without the protective umbrella of a binding agreement they would have had little to no chance of prevailing.

You absolutely have the right to exercise your first amendment freedom of (non) association. As for me I will continue to advance and protect the common economic security and dignity through association with my fellow employees to collectively bargain.

America benefits from a strong labor movement!

:wakeneo:

[azhiker96]

Personally, I get every vaccination I can. I'd rather take the small risk of an adverse reaction than face the larger danger of the disease. I do support people's right to refuse vaccinations though. Nothing wrong with natural selection.

My nursing program required several vaccinations or positive titers such as Hep B, mumps, rubella, rubeola. I could have refused to get the Hep B vaccination series but then I'd have to search for a state that doesn't require that for nursing school.

[HM2Viking]

Originally Posted by azhiker96

Personally, I get every vaccination I can. I'd rather take the small risk of an adverse reaction than face the larger danger of the disease. I do support people's right to refuse vaccinations though. Nothing wrong with natural selection.

My nursing program required several vaccinations or positive titers such as Hep B, mumps, rubella, rubeola. I could have refused to get the Hep B vaccination series but then I'd have to search for a state that doesn't require that for nursing school.

Count me as a believer in vaccinations! I support the rights of people to choose not to be vaccinated. (I do gulp a bit about adults refusing to have their kids vaccinated.) Personally, I think natural selection will operate in the cases of refusers.

I have a friend who has an 11-month-old son. He has not had him vaccinated claiming that vaccinations would have weakened his immune system . I just shake my head. I think adults have every right to be dumb but I really question allowing vaccination refusal for kids based on religious reasons.

Recently an American college student who had not been vaccinated came down with polio on a mission trip to South America because she had not been vaccinated as a child due to "religious" reasons. Apparently, the children of the family that she was visiting had recently been vaccinated with OPV. I find it really troubling that a young woman came down with a preventable illness and suffered residual effects because her family was misguided. If everyone counts on herd immunity over vaccination there will be no immunity.

No easy answers but I do struggle with the ethics of allowing parents to refuse vaccination for their children based on non-medical reasons.

I just put my asbestos suit on.

[SueBee RN-BSN]

All nurses should get their shots. It protects the nurse, and the public/patients. Also, we don't have enough nurses as it is. All those nurses out for sick days will cause their coworkers to work that much harder.

In California, nurses were fighting to get flu shots. The docs were getting the shots, but not the nurses. Go figure!!!

[mrdoc2005]

Originally Posted by KeithEMU

One way to get around vaccine requirements is a religious exemption. You don't even legally need to name your religion as that is a violation of privacy for an employer to ask your religious affiliation.
www.vaccineinfo.net/exemptions/relexemptlet.shtml

Most info out there is about children and vaccines, but religous exemptions apply to adults too. Many states have exemptions for philosophical reasons as well.

Not at the VM you either get the shot, wear the mask or be escorted to the door. Their way around that right is to make you wear the mask for the full 12 + hours

[lindarn]

Originally Posted by mrdoc2005

Not at the VM you either get the shot, wear the mask or be escorted to the door. Their way around that right is to make you wear the mask for the full 12 + hours

Everyone has to realize that there is NO NURSING SHORTAGE IN WASHINGTON STATE. Especially in Seattle. There is a plethora of nursing programs in Washington, especially in Eastern Washington, and nurses are treated as such. We are a dime a dozen here, and it is very evident in this case concerning Virginia Mason Hospital. More so because it is unionized, and the hospital still tried to pull the unfair labor practice that it did.

I am surprised, however, that WSNA got involved and was actually able to pull off a win for the nurses. They are the epitome of "paper tiger" and "milk toasts" in the union environment. They rarely go against management in anything. And no, I am not anti union. I am anti worthless union.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
Spokane, Washington