[Noryn]

Originally Posted by Jolie

Noryn,

This is the waiver form for the State of MD. I believe you are correct that it includes religious and medical exemptions. Parents who object for other reasons would either have to claim religion or accept the possibility that their children may not be allowed in public school.

http://edcp.org/pdf/896_form_revised_Dec-2005.

See I am fine without not allowing these children to go to public school if they are deemed a public health threat. That is reasonable to me but why would you put parents in jail? I see no benefit in grouping parents (who may have a legitimate concern about the safety of some vaccinations) with potentially violent criminals. Kick them out of school, if the parents do not have arrangments for alternative schooling then consider legal penalties but "if you dont vaccinate your kids you are going to jail" situation really worries me.

I think what worries me the most is how many policies are made after well paid lobbyists provide their input. Who is guaranteeing the safety of these vaccines? The FDA? The drug companies? After some recent events, I have little faith in either of these.

I think we need to use common sense. If you are able to opt out of something for religious beliefs then is it really that important for public health? If I have a tb patient who states, "I will not take antibiotics because it is against my beliefs", I am willing to bet religion is not going to save him from being quarantined or even avoiding mandatory treatment.

So I am confused. Is there a flaw in this system or if you belong to a particular religion you can be a public health risk?

[morte]

Originally Posted by Noryn

See I am fine without not allowing these children to go to public school if they are deemed a public health threat. That is reasonable to me but why would you put parents in jail? I see no benefit in grouping parents (who may have a legitimate concern about the safety of some vaccinations) with potentially violent criminals. Kick them out of school, if the parents do not have arrangments for alternative schooling then consider legal penalties but "if you dont vaccinate your kids you are going to jail" situation really worries me.

I think what worries me the most is how many policies are made after well paid lobbyists provide their input. Who is guaranteeing the safety of these vaccines? The FDA? The drug companies? After some recent events, I have little faith in either of these.

I think we need to use common sense. If you are able to opt out of something for religious beliefs then is it really that important for public health? If I have a tb patient who states, "I will not take antibiotics because it is against my beliefs", I am willing to bet religion is not going to save him from being quarantined or even avoiding mandatory treatment.

So I am confused. Is there a flaw in this system or if you belong to a particular religion you can be a public health risk?

my thought is that the opt out for rel. was the trade off to get it passed....figuring that few would take advantage and "herd immunity"
would work......and you are right about TB...one of the only if not only diseases that Rx will be forced

[rph3664]

Originally Posted by luvschoolnursing

I think part of the problem is complacency on the part of the parents because many of them-myself included-have never seen the diseases we immunize against. Another problem is that there is so much anti-immunization info out there. I strongly believe in immunizations and my kids have all the recommended ones, however, I think that the schools mandating them is NOT the solution. Educate the parents but allow them to opt out. Unfortunately, this solution will leave kids susceptible to the diseases we are able to control.

ITA!

I haven't looked at the whole thread yet, but you ought to Google "MMR conspiracy" and be prepared to see some real colander-on-the-head websites. There are people who actually believe that the MMR vaccine is a tactic to produce a generation of autistic children; among other things, it's so drug companies can produce a line of drugs to treat it.

One reason why that makes no sense to me is because whenever I hear about a person with really severe autism - the kind where they should probably be institutionalized as soon as it's apparent they will not respond to therapy - they almost always have at least one physician parent. Why would DOCTORS want to do this to their own children?

I have known several families who had an autistic relative, and we can't blame MMR for this because they were middle-aged or older. Obviously, they were severely affected. And I can think of at least a half-dozen people I grew up with in the 1970s who I believe were on the spectrum themselves.

Before flaming me for the institutionalization thing, read this and then tell me how any family could benefit from having someone like this living with them. I first heard about it on another website who introduced it this way: "This story will never be in the mainstream press because it isn't all warm and fuzzy."

http://archive.salon.com/mwt/feature.../index_np.html

[Spidey's mom]

Originally Posted by Jolie

Noryn,

This is the waiver form for the State of MD. I believe you are correct that it includes religious and medical exemptions. Parents who object for other reasons would either have to claim religion or accept the possibility that their children may not be allowed in public school.

http://edcp.org/pdf/896_form_revised_Dec-2005.

Here in California, the waiver I signed (before school started) to say I didn't want to give the school my son's dental records just said that I didn't want to do it. No reasons given. Same with the chicken pox vaccine.

I guess the reason I'm reluctant to do the cp vaccine is that all three of my older kids got it at the same time and while they were itchy and miserable, it wasn't that big of a deal. My doc and I talked about it and he didn't get his kids the vaccine either.

Of course, now we are faced with having to look for a chicken pox party so my son will get the chicken pox . . . (just kidding). I'm actually thinking about getting him one, reluctantly.

The thing is, I want to be the one who decides. Any time the government starts telling me what I can and cannot do in regards to raising my kids . . . I get ready for a fight. This started when my oldest was in 1st grade and I decided to home school.

The "government" has overreached in so many areas . .. .Roy - I may be more libertarian than I thought

These parents should have signed the exemption in a timely manner - but jail . . . I think that is over the line.

steph

[Jolie]

Noryn,

I understand what you are saying, and I think that the headlines are more than a little misleading. The parents are not being threatened with jail for failing to vaccinate their kids. There is nothing illegal about that. They are being threatened with jail for violating a health code which requires them to do one of 3 things: 1.) Vaccinate, 2.) Sign a waiver, 3.) Remove their child from public school.

The parents who face jail are those who have continued to send their children to school despite failing to comply with either option #1 or option # 2.

But the headline, "Parents Threatened with Jail for Failure to Comply with Health Code" is a whole lot less inflammatory.

[Spidey's mom]

Originally Posted by Jolie

Noryn,

I understand what you are saying, and I think that the headlines are more than a little misleading. The parents are not being threatened with jail for failing to vaccinate their kids. There is nothing illegal about that. They are being threatened with jail for violating a health code which requires them to do one of 3 things: 1.) Vaccinate, 2.) Sign a waiver, 3.) Remove their child from public school.

The parents who face jail are those who have continued to send their children to school despite failing to comply with either option #1 or option # 2.

But the headline, "Parents Threatened with Jail for Failure to Comply with Health Code" is a whole lot less inflammatory.

Very good point.


steph

[jlsRN]

I have a question:

If vaccines are so effective, why do those getting the vaccines worry so much about sending their children to school with those unvaccinated? I totally don't understand their reasoning. Aren't the unvaccinated children at risk of getting the disease, and the vaccinated children immune?

[rph3664]

Originally Posted by jlsRN

I have a question:

If vaccines are so effective, why do those getting the vaccines worry so much about sending their children to school with those unvaccinated? I totally don't understand their reasoning. Aren't the unvaccinated children at risk of getting the disease, and the vaccinated children immune?

No vaccine is 100% effective, and there's that "herd immunity" concept.

Plus, some vaccines' efficacy wears off, and that's why we need tetanus boosters.

[mercyteapot]

Originally Posted by jlsRN

I have a question:

If vaccines are so effective, why do those getting the vaccines worry so much about sending their children to school with those unvaccinated? I totally don't understand their reasoning. Aren't the unvaccinated children at risk of getting the disease, and the vaccinated children immune?

Not everyone whose child is vaccinated is worried about sending their children to school with kids who aren't vaccinated. My son is fully vaccinated and it doesn't bother me at all who else is or is not vaccinated.

It does bother me when people think that they're above the law, though. I follow all the laws, even the ones that I think over-reach or are just plain stupid. If your feelings against vaccinations are compelling enough that you opt not to have your child receive them, then filling out a paper to that effect shouldn't be problematic. The schools have to be able to maintain a record system. If cooperating is really that offensive to one's freedom, there's always private or home schools.

[rph3664]

Originally Posted by mercyteapot

It does bother me when people think that they're above the law, though.

MTP, that's probably the issue - that people are defying the rules just to do it. What kind of example are they for their children?

I know someone who has a relative who is refusing to vaccinate just because - there are no medical or religious indications for them not to do so - and had to travel 300 miles to find a doctor who would sign waivers, no questions asked. Weird thing is, they're the kind of parents who take their kids to the ER because they sneezed.