[CseMgr1]

"Patients said to owe money are being relentlessly pursued by health care providers for amounts that are obviously well beyond any ability to pay--or any ability to pay without impoverishing the patient's family".

http://www.consumerlaw.org/issues/me...edicaldebt.pdf

A long, but rather disturbing report on the debt collection abuses being used by health care providers in this country.

[CRNA2007]

Wow I can't believe hospitals and health care personnel actually expect to get paid for services. To think these poor patients might have to get rid of necessities like cable TV and cell phones to make some sort of payment for their health care bill. Next thing you know grocery stores will require full payment up front for their goods and services as well. I long for the good old days when everything was free.

[rph3664]

Originally Posted by CRNA2007

Wow I can't believe hospitals and health care personnel actually expect to get paid for services. To think these poor patients might have to get rid of necessities like cable TV and cell phones to make some sort of payment for their health care bill. Next thing you know grocery stores will require full payment up front for their goods and services as well. I long for the good old days when everything was free.

You have a point, but there are indeed people who are driven into bankruptcy because of medical bills. I will acknowledge that it's often not the medical bills themselves, but all the other stuff that isn't covered by insurance, like lost wages, travel expenses, child care, that sort of thing.

There's a big difference between someone who CAN'T pay and someone who WON'T pay.

An example of the latter: Until a few years ago, there was a skydiving exhibition that came to my city. This sent a parade of injuries to our ER, and a huge percentage of them were not insured, and many of them gave fake names and addresses, therefore driving up costs for everyone else.

It wasn't just at the hospital, either. They also did this at hotels and restaurants (i.e. skipped out on bills) and were notorious for picking up and partying with, etc. underage girls.

That's why it went elsewhere - the town didn't want them there.

[CseMgr1]

My late mother was not only driven into bankruptcy due to medical bills...but her Internist's debt collectors also seized every dime of her retirement, as well. My sister personally confronted him inside his office: "You did not HAVE to take to take ALL of my Mother's money". He just shrugged, indifferent, and she added coldly: "I hope you sleep well tonight".

I would add my regarding my opinion of this heartless jerk, but it isn't allowed on this website.

[CRNA2007]

I know you think it seems heartless and cruel but people's debts need to be paid. Now I'm not sure if you mean after her death they were paid from the estate or they took her retirement before she passed away. Either way why do you believe that the physician was not entitled to be paid for the work he performed? If someone had replaced your mothers roof on her house should they have not been paid either from her retirement or from her estate?

Originally Posted by CseMgr1

My late mother was not only driven into bankruptcy due to medical bills...but her Internist's debt collectors also seized every dime of her retirement, as well. My sister personally confronted him inside his office: "You did not HAVE to take to take ALL of my Mother's money". He just shrugged, indifferent, and she added coldly: "I hope you sleep well tonight".

I would add my regarding my opinion of this heartless jerk, but it isn't allowed on this website.

[Babs0512]

I believe people should be paid for the work that they do, roofer or doctor; however, the doctors often way overcharge patients for their services. For example: when my mother was alive, she was admitted to the hospital for pneumonia. Her doctor came by one morning, stood in the doorway and said "How are you this morning?" My mother replied "Okay, I guess". The doctor said "Good", and promptly left.

No exam, no discussion about treatment, nothing. I was a nursing student at the time, but I wrote down everything, sort of like a log, mostly as a learning experience for me.

She was charged $250.00 for that visit - it was listed as a "comprehensive exam". That's just outrageous.

I know that every time a pulse ox is put on a patients finger, they are charged $65.00 at our hospital.

So I can see where medical bills can bankrupt a person, especially those on a fixed income. I also believe that Doctors should be paid for their services, providing their fees are realistic and in line with the actual services provided to the patient.

[rph3664]

Originally Posted by CRNA2007

I know you think it seems heartless and cruel but people's debts need to be paid. Now I'm not sure if you mean after her death they were paid from the estate or they took her retirement before she passed away. Either way why do you believe that the physician was not entitled to be paid for the work he performed? If someone had replaced your mothers roof on her house should they have not been paid either from her retirement or from her estate?

You have a point. Do people have cell phone insurance? Or designer clothes insurance? Or vacation insurance (besides the policy that would reimburse them should they have to cancel)?

We have a lot of Amish and Mennonite patients where I work, and we have had a few patients about whom I cannot figure out how they paid those bills. Somehow, they always do.

[Jolie]

Originally Posted by Babs0512

I believe people should be paid for the work that they do, roofer or doctor; however, the doctors often way overcharge patients for their services. For example: when my mother was alive, she was admitted to the hospital for pneumonia. Her doctor came by one morning, stood in the doorway and said "How are you this morning?" My mother replied "Okay, I guess". The doctor said "Good", and promptly left.

No exam, no discussion about treatment, nothing. I was a nursing student at the time, but I wrote down everything, sort of like a log, mostly as a learning experience for me.

She was charged $250.00 for that visit - it was listed as a "comprehensive exam". That's just outrageous.

I know that every time a pulse ox is put on a patients finger, they are charged $65.00 at our hospital.

So I can see where medical bills can bankrupt a person, especially those on a fixed income. I also believe that Doctors should be paid for their services, providing their fees are realistic and in line with the actual services provided to the patient.

You are absolutely right that there are times when patients are ridiculously overcharged. However, in most circumstances, healthcare providers will not pursue debt collection as long as a patient is actively in contact with the provider, challenging overcharges, negotiating discounts, making small regular payments, etc.

It is tempting for those who are overwhelmed by debt to withdraw and ignore bills, notices, etc., but that is the worst thing one can do, as that is the (in)action that prompts aggressive collection methods.

[PiPhi2004]

Sorry but doctors got bills too. The system definately needs reformed but it's not and people are really nieve enough to believe that they WONT get sick. If I do work for you I deserve to get paid. If you choose me for the service and arent an advocate in your own billing process and you get overcharged who's fault is it? If you got too little insurance because you wanted to save a buck, got hurt, then who's fault is it? If you didnt understand your insurance policy when you got it and just thought it'd take care of you, then who's fault is it? You let yourself get abused by the system. Dont EXPECT the government, insurance companies, or anyone else to do it for you. Right now its just a fact of life. Just like any other service, you gotta pay. Plus if someone didnt pay YOU for your services I dont think you'd be so sympathetic to them as well. Doctors know a lot and therefore can charge a lot because its all about supply and demand. You just cant stiff people, even if you are sick.

[Babs0512]

PhiPhi: The average person doesn't know enough about medical procedures to understand what they are being charged for. Have you ever seen an itemized hospital billing statement? Unless you know what "Alaris secondary pump tubing" is, or "scoop mask", etc... how are you going to know if the itemization is accurate?

I agree, people have to be proactive in their healthcare but to expect the "average Joe" to understand and weed through all the medical jargon is unrealistic.