[mercyteapot]

Originally Posted by Angie O'Plasty, RN

I've had a cell phone/camera for years and no way am I leaving it home, so that idea for legislation is as unenforceable as it is unrealistic.

I'm appalled that CNAs, who've supposedly had training in respecting the rights of patients, would even think to do such a thing.

How is it unenforceable? If there's a rule and you're caught breaking it, then there will be consequences. If we didn't make rules and laws based solely on the fact that they're easy to break, we wouldn't have laws against anything that is easily concealed. There is no safety rationalization for carrying a camera phone. A regular cell offers the same protections as a camera phone for the carrier, and has far less potential for abuse of the rights of others.

[Angie O'Plasty, RN]

Originally Posted by Nemhain

The idea is quite enforceable and realistic. My cousin works at a hospital in Maine and if a device that is capable of taking a picture (camera/phone/pda) is brought out onto the floor (said devices must be left in lounges/lunch rooms) the employee will be written up. Three such write-ups will result in the employees' termination.

It's in my pocket, not "out on the floor." It's not a gun, it's a phone.

I'm not a high-school kid, I'm an adult and a licensed professional. I really can figure out, all by myself, when it's appropriate to use my cell phone--as do millions of people every day.

As has become the new norm in this country, you're advocating that the exception makes the rule. The result will be that the law fails the majority of people.


I suspect that your cousin's facility probably has a lot of noncompliant employees and/or has less-than-optimal staffing. People just hate it when employers treat them like two-year-olds.

A simple "no personal cell phone use" rule--one that most facilities already have--would suffice.

[fergus51]

I don't see the problem with requiring that cell phones be left in the break room, in the locker, at the desk, etc. I see no reason a nurse has to have it on her person at work. I wouldn't want to leave mine at home either but I don't need to have it on my person while working. Camera phones are the main reason that cell phones are not allowed on our unit. We had too many parents trying to take pictures of things and people they shouldn't have been.

[Angie O'Plasty, RN]

Originally Posted by mercyteapot

How is it unenforceable? If there's a rule and you're caught breaking it, then there will be consequences. If we didn't make rules and laws based solely on the fact that they're easy to break, we wouldn't have laws against anything that is easily concealed. There is no safety rationalization for carrying a camera phone. A regular cell offers the same protections as a camera phone for the carrier, and has far less potential for abuse of the rights of others.

Wait up a sec, and look at what was said. It went like this:

Someone expects me to put my cell in a public employee lounge where it could potentially be stolen or where my personal info can be stolen (what about those who have cell phones/PDAs/cameraphones?) as opposed to being kept in my personal pocket, unused and turned off for the shift?

I think not.

What are they going to do, search me before I start work? I said I'd work for them, not give up my constitutional rights.

[mercyteapot]

I wasn't aware that the Constitution gave us the right to carry cameras to work.

[Angie O'Plasty, RN]

Originally Posted by mercyteapot

I wasn't aware that the Constitution gave us the right to carry cameras to work.

One more time.

I have my cell phone in my pocket. It has a camera feature in it. I work with several people--docs, managers, and administrative staff included--who have cell phones that are also PDAs with Internet access and have cameras built in. These devices cost hundreds of dollars and frequently have highly sensitive personal information in them. NO WAY am I leaving my device where it and/or my identity can be stolen or accessed by someone other than myself.

Unlike many of these coworkers, my device is turned off for the shift or it's safely in my pocket on vibrate so that I can know immediately if I have a home emergency. I have never taken pictures with my cell phone at work. I have never used the cell phone when I am doing patient care.

(I also can't believe that I have to spell out the obvious to you, MTP. But whatever....if you didn't ask, I'm sure someone would, this being the Internet and all.)

Now, to answer your question:

My Constitutional rights (so far anyway) prevent my employer from searching me and seizing my personal property. To wit, the cell phone in my pocket.

So how do they know I have my device on my person if I don't pull it out and use it while I'm working?

I'm surprised that no one has asked these questions:

Why do these rules only extend to nursing staff, but not docs, managers, and administrative staff? Oh, and let's not forget--PATIENTS and VISITORS. Are they more able than we licensed professionals to determine when and where we use an electronic device?

[mercyteapot]

Frankly, I would be just fine with these things being banned, for use by anyone, period. It would be great if people were to be trusted, but we all know that they are not. That one fact is more obvious to me than any other.

[Angie O'Plasty, RN]

PS Sorry that the thread has strayed so far from the topic. I suggest if anyone wants to discuss the subject of carrying electronic devices at work, they might want to start a new thread. I had no idea that my response would open such a huge can of worms.

[SMK1]

I just assumed that cell phones were not allowed to be carried while working anyway (unless they were for work related use). As a student nurse we have to have our phones turned off and left in our conference room allong with all other perosnal items as we don't have any lockers like the staff, or we can leave them in our cars. I just don't see a need for cell phone use during work time anyway. If there is an emergency people will call the unit and you will be paged. No need to have with with you anyway inmho. Any worries about stealing can be addressed by leaving it where you feel safe to leave your wallet and purse,(a car, locker etc...) because most people don't carry those things around either.

[Nemhain]

Originally Posted by Angie O'Plasty, RN

It's in my pocket, not "out on the floor." It's not a gun, it's a phone.

I'm not a high-school kid, I'm an adult and a licensed professional. I really can figure out, all by myself, when it's appropriate to use my cell phone--as do millions of people every day.

As has become the new norm in this country, you're advocating that the exception makes the rule. The result will be that the law fails the majority of people.


I suspect that your cousin's facility probably has a lot of noncompliant employees and/or has less-than-optimal staffing. People just hate it when employers treat them like two-year-olds.

A simple "no personal cell phone use" rule--one that most facilities already have--would suffice.

No, her facility doesn't have a lot of noncompliant people. Actually, only one person has since violated the policy (I just got off the phone with her a 1/2 hour ago). The hospital made this policy 3 or 4 years ago before it was common place to have cameras built into phones, pdas or other devices. (I'm not talking about simple cell phones on the floor - just cell phones or any device with a camera in it.) No one has a problem with it. The facility had a strict confidentiality policy well before HIPPA came along (they also can't bring any type of voice recorder into a room).

Also, I'm not suggesting that if those two CNAs hadn't had a camera-phone at work that they wouldn't have done something else just as heinous. I just think the prohibition of devices with cameras in them serves as a reminder of the HIPPA laws and how serious patient confidentiality is.