[Angie O'Plasty, RN]

Originally Posted by Freedom42

If you're suggesting that hospitals that are chronically understaffed by nurses are a working system, I respectfully disagree.

But here's the real issue: What credible argument could the union in Syracuse make to oppose downsizing? What argument could the union make that would not appear to be self-serving and only based on job preservation?

Our health-care system is in trouble. Changes have to be made, and they are going to require some sacrifices. I'm reminded of an old saying: Everyone wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die.

Our healthcare system IS in trouble, I agree. However, the answer is not to simply close facilities. And it is certainly not the job of the union to protect the government's interests.

Who will be affected by this the most? The nurses? Certainly not, there's a shortage and they'll have other jobs very quickly.

But I doubt if those nurses will want to pay a union to represent their interests again.

[Gromit]

If the union also supports illegals, how is that helping to fix a broken system?
... Another truism:
"Its easy to talk of sacrifice when you aren't the one making the sacrifice"
Closing a hospital has a much further reaching impact than simply putting workers out of work -and forcing them to find other employment (or move to do so) -it also hurts the community in which the hospital existed. I cannot see any way in which this could be viewed as a 'good thing'.

[pickledpepperRN]

Originally Posted by Gromit

If the union also supports illegals, how is that helping to fix a broken system?
... Another truism:
"Its easy to talk of sacrifice when you aren't the one making the sacrifice"
Closing a hospital has a much further reaching impact than simply putting workers out of work -and forcing them to find other employment (or move to do so) -it also hurts the community in which the hospital existed. I cannot see any way in which this could be viewed as a 'good thing'.

I agree.

CNA registered nurses are the only Kaiser workers NOT in this partnership. The RNs maintained their ability to advocate for patients after a series of one day strikes in 1997. The "partners" agree to promote Kaiser. This includes keeping unsafe care, even abuse secret. If an employee reports Kaiser to a regulatory agency SEIU will not protect them from retaliation. They must do this in secret. If the employer has no reason to think that nurse was the whistle blower the law does not apply.

The interest of nurses is patient care.
The interest of Kaiser and all employers is profit.
How can the union PARTNER with the employer?

Building on the Kaiser Permanente Partnership | SEIU.org

[ingelein]

Originally Posted by spacenurse

I agree.

CNA registered nurses are the only Kaiser workers NOT in this partnership. The RNs maintained their ability to advocate for patients after a series of one day strikes in 1997. The "partners" agree to promote Kaiser. This includes keeping unsafe care, even abuse secret. If an employee reports Kaiser to a regulatory agency SEIU will not protect them from retaliation. They must do this in secret. If the employer has no reason to think that nurse was the whistle blower the law does not apply.

The interest of nurses is patient care.
The interest of Kaiser and all employers is profit.
How can the union PARTNER with the employer?

Building on the Kaiser Permanente Partnership | SEIU.org

I dont know much about SEIU, but if this is the type of union that is giving unions a bad name then,they need to go. Contact the NLRB wih concerns, they regulate unions.

[pickledpepperRN]

Sadly I think the current NLRB approves of a “partnership” giving an illusion of power to the workers. SEIU does some good for some employees. I don't believe it is member run. And it is so big I can't imagine how members could take over.
---------------------------
Labor/Management Partnership (LMP)

...The California Nurses Association (CNA) is the largest union of Kaiser
Permanente employees that has opted to remain outside of, and opposed to, the LMP. It bargained its own contract in 2004, and its leaders remain vocal critics of the LMP and the unions that participate in it. In 2003, CNA and the United Nurses Association of California (UNAC), the Coalition union representing nurses in Southern California, were embroiled in an inter-union jurisdictional battle in Southern California that was resolved only through intense negotiation and mediation. The threat of further efforts by CNA to raid existing nursing units represented by a Coalition union, or to publicly criticize the Coalition, was also part of the context in which these negotiations occurred.
http://www.lmpartnership.org/commtoo...ership2006.pdf

---------------------------------------------------
How can workers hold managers accountable when they are “partners”? Why has the real power?

…Regarding the Labor Management Partnership, members noted that the partnership officially promotes Kaiser Permanente as “the best place to receive care and the best place to work.” With this in mind, almost nine of 10 Kaiser members say it’s extremely or very important to hold managers accountable to implementing partnership goals…
http://www.seiu-uhw.org/documents/un...ummer2005r.pdf

Coastal Post Article - Kaiser Walkout Happening Over Standards Of Care

Coastal Post Article - HOSPITAL CORPORATION STONEWALLS

[Sheri257]

Originally Posted by Gromit

If the union also supports illegals, how is that helping to fix a broken system?

SEIU's support of illegals is a separate issue, it has nothing to do this particular healthcare issue (at least directly). It's their attempts to increase their ranks by giving illegals guest worker permits, etc. in other industries where SEIU has union members.

Nevertheless, this is why I think SEIU is nuts ... in general. They're not considering the fact that flooding other industries with cheap labor is probably going to compromise their bargaining leverage and drive down wages and benefits for their existing members.

With illegals, this union is doing what critics complain most about ... anything to get more dues paying members regardless of the long term, detrimental consequences.

I'm probably going to have to join SEIU for a job I want in California and, while they seem to have done an OK job in this particular case I am not crazy about that union overall.

They DO give unions a bad name, no question about it.

[Gromit]

I hate having to hold my nose to go for a job. (join a union you have a problem with, just to get the job)

[Sheri257]

Originally Posted by Gromit

I hate having to hold my nose to go for a job. (join a union you have a problem with, just to get the job)

True. While I hate their national politics (like illegals) I also have to say that the local office did do a pretty job good on their last contract with the particular job I'm interested in.

They did negotiate a good pay raise and increased the retirement benefits so ... I really can't complain about that.

And, I'd rather have union protection, than not so ... it's worth the nose holding ... at least for now.

[pickledpepperRN]

Senator wants universal health care plan

… Wyden, a veteran of the 1990s health care battle, drew support from groups that have frequently opposed each other, including Andy Stern, international president of the Service Employees International Union [SEIU], and Safeway Inc. CEO Steve Burd.
Stern called employer-based health coverage a relic of an industrial economy that is long gone, and said U.S. companies "cannot compete in a global economy when we put the price of health care on the cost of our products, and our competitor nations do not."…

…The plan would require that employers "cash out" their existing health plans by terminating coverage and paying the amount saved directly to workers as increased wages. Workers then would be required to buy health insurance from a large pool of private plans.

After two years, companies would no longer have to pay the higher wages. Instead, Wyden said, they would pay into an insurance pool, based on annual revenues and the number of full-time workers.….

…Stern said the health care system had failed to create jobs while adding to trade deficits and holding wages stagnant….

Senator wants universal health care plan | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

[RN Power Ohio]

Originally Posted by Gromit

lets not forget to heap a helping of blame on the lawyers -you cant even watch late-night TV without seeing a few ads trying to get you to sue doctors, hospitals, nursing homes or even drug companies. These kinds of lawyers are nothing but bottom-feeders.

I believe that patients and families of deceased patients should have the ability to bring their case to court. This is our American system of justice.

Hospitals take no accountability for the unsafe environment they create. Did you know that if you had a wrong site surgery and no harm came of it- you could not sue the hospital AND the hospital would not even offer to absolve you of the bills from the wrong surgery?

88% of malpractice claims are meritorious yet only 20% win in court. The reason the huge amount of advertising dollars spent by the insurance industry. It costs an average of $100,000 to bring a case into court- do you think anyone would take that kind of gamble without a truly meritorious claim?

Malpractice claims have nothing to do with hospital downsizing. Closing much needed urban hospitals that serve the un and underinsured to build new ones in wealthy communities does! The culprit is corporate greed. Greed that even "non-profits" are guilty of.