[wincha]

Originally Posted by caroladybelle

Because they have families to feed, medical bills and if we do not pay them a living wage, they will end up on food stamps and subsidies that we finance via taxes.

Because they get treated like garbage by the public and by those that think that they should be paid a pittance since they have only limited education.

Because some of them have a higher education and cannot get a job due to economic cutbacks.

Because people should be paid well for working very hard in a difficult, demanding, thankless job...regardless of education.

(kind of like nurses and especially nursing aides).

Unions gain power among the workers for reasons, generally related to lousy treatment. If the workers were treated better, they would not go union.

Unions pay undereducated people who do not strive to move up the ladder to pay them what RNs who have an education make. Its the persons responsibility to learn a trade that pays well(not checkout) or move up the ladder into management. That doesn't mean grocery clerks are treated like trash either. My husband is a professional and was self employed for a period of time. We paid our own health insurance. We took care of ourselves. Yes it was not easy but we did it on our own. He also went through college and grad school on his own. I have teenagers they know they need to go to school to get a good job for their life. How is checking out groceries a hard demanding job? Also the pay is not $17 an hour here.

[mercyteapot]

Originally Posted by wincha

Unions pay undereducated people who do not strive to move up the ladder to pay them what RNs who have an education make. Its the persons responsibility to learn a trade that pays well(not checkout) or move up the ladder into management. That doesn't mean grocery clerks are treated like trash either. My husband is a professional and was self employed for a period of time. We paid our own health insurance. We took care of ourselves. Yes it was not easy but we did it on our own. He also went through college and grad school on his own. I have teenagers they know they need to go to school to get a good job for their life. How is checking out groceries a hard demanding job? Also the pay is not $17 an hour here.

Being a cashier in a supermarket is taking care of yourself. It isn't public assistance. It is a job that pays a wage and benefits. If your husband chose to be self employed, that is fine. Many opt for a more regular paycheck with fewer of the potential rewards that come from working for yourself. It is completely a matter of preference. How is having a high school education being undereducated? Cashiers stand on their feet all day, deal with a demanding public, and are prone to repetitive use injuries. They are brunt of shoppers' every frustration, from rising prices to poor quality merchandise to runaway shopping carts in the parking lot, most of over which they have no control. They have productivity quotas. Some of their customers treat them as if they're village idiots. What isn't tough or demanding about that? What is it about all this that seems so easy to you? And why do you think you should have any say over what the cashiers at your supermarket make? If you think they're overpaid and it is resulting in you paying more for your groceries, why not take the more reasonable and productive step of shopping elsewhere? If it is because you prefer the selection and convenience of your neighborhood market, then you should be prepared to pay what the market will bear.

[ali_gator]

Originally Posted by wincha

Unions pay undereducated people who do not strive to move up the ladder to pay them what RNs who have an education make. Its the persons responsibility to learn a trade that pays well(not checkout) or move up the ladder into management. That doesn't mean grocery clerks are treated like trash either. My husband is a professional and was self employed for a period of time. We paid our own health insurance. We took care of ourselves. Yes it was not easy but we did it on our own. He also went through college and grad school on his own. I have teenagers they know they need to go to school to get a good job for their life. How is checking out groceries a hard demanding job? Also the pay is not $17 an hour here.

Many of the jobs you deem to be for the "undereducated" are backbreaking. Your attitude is very individualistic, to say the least. None of us ever do anything "on our own." Some people are born with very few resources at their disposal, and sucess is all the more difficult for them. Just remember that you rely greatly on the working class you clearly look down upon. These people work VERY hard, and DESERVE a living wage! Perhaps you should read a book entitled Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting by in America. This book really sheds some light on how hard it is for those at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder.

[mercyteapot]

Originally Posted by ali_gator

Many of the jobs you deem to be for the "undereducated" are backbreaking. Your attitude is very individualistic, to say the least. None of us ever do anything "on our own." Some people are born with very few resources at their disposal, and sucess is all the more difficult for them. Just remember that you rely greatly on the working class you clearly look down upon. These people work VERY hard, and DESERVE a living wage! Perhaps you should read a book entitled Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting by in America. This book really sheds some light on how hard it is for those at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder.

I just read this book, ali. I've recommended it to a number of my friends and family members. Outstanding!

[caroladybelle]

Originally Posted by mercyteapot

I just read this book, ali. I've recommended it to a number of my friends and family members. Outstanding!

The writer has a new book out that is good also, for the middle class job seeker.

[Sheri257]

Originally Posted by ali_gator

These people work VERY hard, and DESERVE a living wage! Perhaps you should read a book entitled Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting by in America. This book really sheds some light on how hard it is for those at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder.

I totally agree that unskilled workers deserve better wages and benefits. But, the sad truth is unions that represent those workers don't have much leverage. If you're an unskilled worker, and they can replace you easily, they will.

I learned this lession the hard way in my previous career as a union television news producer. When Disney bought the ABC television network, they easily broke the union because, while the jobs required some skill, they still could pretty much hire anybody off the street to do it with little training.

These days, you need a combination of factors to make any progress as a middle class worker. You need skills that nobody off the street can do. You need barriers to entry in the labor pool like nursing school and the NCLEX. And you need to be skilled in jobs that can't be exported to other countries. Education alone isn't enough if a guy in India can do your job for a fraction of what you're being paid.

You also need a really strong union with a lot of political clout to fight for better pay and working conditions. And the only way unions get that clout is to repesent skilled workers in a labor shortage who can't be easily replaced.

This is why nursing strikes in California have been so much more effective than the grocery strikes. With nurses, management had no alternative because there wasn't anybody else they could hire. If they did hire replacement workers, it cost a fortune. With the grocery workers, they could hire plenty of people for cheap and easily bypass the union.

[lee1]

Schwarzenegger briefly hospitalized with irregular heartbeat
12-08-2005, 07h06
LOS ANGELES (AFP)



Celebrity California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger was briefly hospitalized with an irregular heartbeat. A spokeswoman for the movie-star turned politician said Schwarzenegger had experienced the heart complaint and submitted himself to a medical examination late Tuesday before being returning to his duties Wednesday
(AFP/Pool/File)

Celebrity California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger was briefly hospitalized with an irregular heartbeat, the governor's office said.

A spokeswoman for the movie-star turned politician said Schwarzenegger had experienced the heart complaint and submitted himself to a medical examination late Tuesday before being returning to his duties Wednesday.

The bulky Schwarzenegger, a former champion body-builder, joked about the incident after leaving hospital.

"Yesterday I went to the hospital because I had a irregular heartbeat. I do that just so often just to show that Republicans do have a heart!" Schwarzenegger said during an official ceremony in Sacramento.

"Seriously, as the doctors say, everything is fine, I just got a little too excited," he said.


AFP

[mercyteapot]

Originally Posted by lee1

Schwarzenegger briefly hospitalized with irregular heartbeat
12-08-2005, 07h06
LOS ANGELES (AFP)



Celebrity California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger was briefly hospitalized with an irregular heartbeat. A spokeswoman for the movie-star turned politician said Schwarzenegger had experienced the heart complaint and submitted himself to a medical examination late Tuesday before being returning to his duties Wednesday
(AFP/Pool/File)

Celebrity California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger was briefly hospitalized with an irregular heartbeat, the governor's office said.

A spokeswoman for the movie-star turned politician said Schwarzenegger had experienced the heart complaint and submitted himself to a medical examination late Tuesday before being returning to his duties Wednesday.

The bulky Schwarzenegger, a former champion body-builder, joked about the incident after leaving hospital.

"Yesterday I went to the hospital because I had a irregular heartbeat. I do that just so often just to show that Republicans do have a heart!" Schwarzenegger said during an official ceremony in Sacramento.

"Seriously, as the doctors say, everything is fine, I just got a little too excited," he said.


AFP

Wouldn't it be interesting if one of these reports looked at the ratio angle and told us how many nurses were assigned to care for him?

[lee1]

Originally Posted by mercyteapot

Wouldn't it be interesting if one of these reports looked at the ratio angle and told us how many nurses were assigned to care for him?

Maybe the CNA will think of this !!!!

[sjrn85]

If he'd needed an IV med push, it would have been almost worth being fired to say, just before pushing the med, "Hasta la vista, baby!"

(Calm down, just joking...although it would have been tempting.)