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  #11  
Old Mar 27, 2008, 06:29 PM
Diary/Dairy's Avatar
BSN, RN
Join Date: Jun 2005
Re: pronounced dead - man responds

Yet another reason for me to oppose organ donation! What a horrible thing to do to another person!!

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  #12  
Old Mar 29, 2008, 01:09 PM
talaxandra's Avatar
Eternal student
Join Date: May 2002
Re: pronounced dead - man responds

I'm a little conflicted about this, especially as I work in a neuro and renal unit. Brain death as a concept has always been contentious, but now more so than ever.

NSW is considering bringing in legislation that goes one step further:

TRANSPLANT doctors would be able to remove organs from people whose heart and circulation had stopped but who were not brain dead under a draft New South Wales government policy.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sto...60-662,00.html

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  #13  
Old Mar 29, 2008, 01:33 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2008
Re: pronounced dead - man responds

ALWAYS BUSY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  #14  
Old Mar 29, 2008, 02:16 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Re: pronounced dead - man responds

Originally Posted by presuppose View Post
I asked a question during an organ recovery inservice; namely, how can we be so absolutely sure the poor soul isn't in a 'locked in' state?
People who are "locked in" typically have preservation of horizontal and vertical gaze, and can blink on command.

To review: probably the most commonly accepted standard of brain death is from the President's Commission for the Study of Ethical Problems in Medicine and Biomedical and Behavioral Research. It has been summarized elsewhere as:

"The standard tests proposed by the medical consultants to the President's Commission are clinically based. The brain functions considered are cerebral and brain stem functions. Cessation of cerebral function is attested by deep coma without clinical response to any physical stimuli. Brain stem function is assessed by testing for cranial nerve function, including pupillary, corneal, oculocephalic, oculovestibular, and oropharyngeal reflexes, and by carrying out an apnea test to determine respiratory function. Irreversibility is determined by identifying the cause of the coma to exclude drug intoxication and hypothermia and by observing the patient for a specified period of time. Such tests as an electroencephalogram, a brain stem evoked potentials study, or a cerebral blood flow study are considered desirable when objective documentation is needed to substantiate these clinical findings but are not generally necessary for the determination of brain death."

It is difficult for me to imagine how much more complete we could be.

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  #15  
Old Apr 02, 2008, 10:13 AM
wtbcrna's Avatar
wtbcrna (Male)
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Re: pronounced dead - man responds

What a shock when I clicked on the link and found this is a hospital I used to work at!

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  #16  
Old Apr 06, 2008, 12:36 AM
pebbles (Female)
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Re: pronounced dead - man responds

I work in the main teaching hospital, and the neurosurgery centre of the province. All the organ donation candidates come to us.

We've had more than a few other Community hospitals send us patients they said were "brain dead" and were being sent to us for the organ donation process - only to find out they did in fact have responses to pain, reactive pupils, and breathed spontaneously above the ventilator.

So while this story is horrifying, I don't find it that hard to believe. If the doctors and staff there were less familiar with the thorough process for declaring brain death (we use the same criteria described by TiredMD), mistakes can happen.

Pretty scary.

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  #17  
Old Apr 06, 2008, 04:29 PM
aeauooo (Male)
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Re: pronounced dead - man responds

Originally Posted by presuppose View Post
how can we be so absolutely sure the poor soul isn't in a 'locked in' state?
People in true locked-in states are able to move thier eyes and can communicate.

I've participated in a number of declarations of brain death. All I can say regarding this story is that whoever declared him brain dead either did a very sloppy job of assessing him or really didn't know what she/he was doing.

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  #18  
Old Apr 06, 2008, 04:38 PM
aeauooo (Male)
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Re: pronounced dead - man responds

Originally Posted by pebbles View Post
We've had more than a few other Community hospitals send us patients they said were "brain dead" and were being sent to us for the organ donation process - only to find out they did in fact have responses to pain, reactive pupils, and breathed spontaneously above the ventilator.
I saw a patient with a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head sent to the unit who I had been told was brain dead by the neurosurg residents. I could tell by looking at him from the door that he wasn't! Either they didn't fully assess him, or they didn't know what 'CNRN' stands for.

This gives organ donation a bad name. I have no hesitation about designating myself as a donor.

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  #19  
Old Apr 07, 2008, 01:52 PM
rnmomtobe2010 (Female)
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2007
Re: pronounced dead - man responds

Hallelujah!!!!!

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  #20  
Old May 21, 2008, 11:22 AM
Franemtnurse's Avatar
poopsiebublnose
Join Date: Jun 2002
Re: pronounced dead - man responds

Me either. What doesn't get harvested is going to be cremated anyway.

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