[SharonH, RN]

Originally Posted by banditrn

I learned to form my OWN opinions without someone else like 'Rush or Bill?' to tell me what to think.

Bandit, does it bother you that I insinuated that you were led to think the way you do by media pundits? It's pretty insulting, isn't it? You're an individual who forms her own opinions based on your life experiences and your innate intelligence and for someone who has never even met you to draw that conclusion is just wrong.

But instead, too many of them listen to the two 'Reverends' and fall into the 'victim' mentality.

Which makes the above statement by you all the more ironic......

[SharonH, RN]

Originally Posted by earle58

sharon, i already explained "why" it went in that direction.
a poster had stated that if she could claw her way out, anyone could.
i then referred to another thread about issues w/poc in workplace, and how poc may have a harder time digging themselves out.
that was the beginning and the end of any racially-focused statements.
so please, do not assume that i equate welfare/poverty=black.
you're an intelligent woman.
please do not respond as if there were a bias.
thanks.

leslie

You know Leslie, I know you weren't trying to be malicious. I shouldn't have teed off on you and I'm sorry.

[marikat534]

Even those not in poverty face the issue of medical crisis if you are uninsured you are literally driven into a state of poverty if you have to go to the doctor or pay $300 + for a month supply of medication. Bless corporations and governments with their capitalistic views and driving up the cost of health care. We thank you for making us the bad guys.

On a positive not at least you can go to some teaching hospitals and get treatment for free. This isn't a good topic for me to get started on.

[SmilingBluEyes]

Ok, let's try to focus on the subject of the Original Topic and not each other here. Please, can we veer back on topic and move on from here? Thank you.

[mellonball]

Originally Posted by SmilingBluEyes

Ok, let's try to focus on the subject of the Original Topic and not each other here. Please, can we veer back on topic and move on from here? Thank you.

In the spirit of not getting away from the initial topic, can you imagine getting sick because you can't afford to go to the doctor? i know it sounds stupid, but seriously, i recently made my eczema flare because i was so freaked out about a doctor's visit. first, i have to ask for time off from work. and trust me, they have no problem getting someone to fill my place. then i think about how much i have in the bank and how much the visit is going to cost me. my company raised the amount of our co-pay and the fee for a specialist is even higher. i put aside $50 expecting to pay a co-pay of $25 for my four year old to see the dermatologist. turns out she is considered a "specialist" and my co-pay is actually $40. Good thing i took out that fifty. then after my 10 minute visit, i got a prescription for a lotion to get his mosquito bite itches under control. turns out he is allergic. he is now fine and back to school. all it cost me was a pediatric visit, a dermatologist visit and a Walgreens visit. i didn't have the money, but i had it as a "just in case **** happens" fund and having to run around to get that money and get my ass back to work was definitely hazardous to my health. i may not be living in poverty, but i have a good idea of how it feels.

[SmilingBluEyes]

Mellon,To answer a question you asked: Yes, I can imagine what living in true poverty is like, as can anyone, but I don't know. I have seen with my own eyes true poverty in places like Mexico, and closer to home, where I grew up in Chicago-----and I was able to see what it does to people living in it. . However, I make/made no claim to actually know what it's like to live in real poverty.

Again: I don't disagree with the premise of the topic. I just believe it's best if we focus on this topic, rather than resort to "one-upping" or insulting each other on this thread. Don't you agree?

[mellonball]

Originally Posted by SmilingBluEyes

Mellon,To answer a question you asked: Yes, I can imagine what living in true poverty is like, as can anyone, but I don't know. I have seen with my own eyes true poverty in places like Mexico, and closer to home, where I grew up in Chicago-----and I was able to see what it does to people living in it. . However, I make/made no claim to actually know what it's like to live in real poverty.

Again: I don't disagree with the premise of the topic. I just believe it's best if we focus on this topic, rather than resort to "one-upping" or insulting each other on this thread. Don't you agree?

I TOTALLY AGREE AND I AM NOT ATTACKING OR ANYTHING, I AM JUST GENERALLY ASKING. SORRY F IT COMES OFF LIKE I AM COMING AT YOU. I DID SEE THE TOPIC VEER OFF. NO INSULT WAS INTENDED AT ALL. IN FACT, I HAVE LEARNED ALOT IN THIS FORUM ALONE AND IT HAS MADE ME LOOK AROUND AT HOW THINGS ARE GOING ON. TAKE A LOOK AT THIS:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21111931/

[ZASHAGALKA]

Originally Posted by SharonH, RN

We should have honest discussion about how current healthcare policy affects the health of all of our citizens instead of blowing them off with the attitude that if you're poor then you probably deserve to be that way.

Poverty is a choice, and a shameful one at that. I do believe that if you are poor, you deserve to be that way.

The Bible is very clear on this: you reap what you sow.

Hard work and marriage are reliable pathways from poverty.

The average number of hours of work per week PER HOUSEHOLD in the poorest 20% of households is 20 hrs - 1 part time job. Bringing that up to full time employment is enough, by itself, in most cases, to rise above poverty. Dual full time income earners is enough to bring any family up to middle class. Imagine that, getting married to have children and both partners working to support the family. We used to call that values.

It is a fact that poverty is a state of mind, and a choice. If we taught THAT instead of excusing this shameful condition, then MAYBE it would be more of a motivator than telling the poor that it's OK TO BE POOR. It's not. It's shameful. IT SHOULD BE SHAMEFUL. We used to consider shame a powerful motivator to amend behavior.

It's a hard truth, but that is the truth. Take a peek at Proverbs; it says this very thing, several times.

There but by the Grace of God do NOT go I. Why? Because I work hard, and I do so, full time. It's that simple.

OF COURSE poverty is hazardous to your health, both physically and spiritually. That's a no-brainer.

~faith,
Timothy.

[ZASHAGALKA]

The truth is the truth, even if it is a hard truth. People make choices and poverty is such a choice.

The belief in hard work and marriage as a vehicle to raise children are both strong Christian values. I stand by them.

Now, the Bible also has lots to say about charity. That is a different topic, altogether. Gov't aid, however, isn't charity. It is an entitlement, not a gift and that makes all the difference. I believe in charity. I do not believe in entitlements.

For the record, SCHIP was REPUBLICAN sponsored legislation when it was passed in 1997. It will be again, when President Bush signs it. He WILL sign it, when Democrats are forced to readdress their perversion of the original legislation and remove the encroachment into socialized medicine from it in order to restore it to what it was designed to do: help kids in the gap between Medicaid and affordable insurance.

~faith,
Timothy.

[mellonball]

Originally Posted by ZASHAGALKA

The truth is the truth, even if it is a hard truth. People make choices and poverty is such a choice.

For the record, I am an awesome bedside nurse.

The Bible IS clear on this: don't work; don't eat.

And you don't have to yell.

~faith,
Timothy.

JUST SO YOU KNOW, I AM NOT YELLING. EVERYTHING IS IN CAPS BECAUSE THE JOB I WORK AT FOR OVER 40 HOURS I HAVE TO USE CAPS WHILE WORKING AND I JUST DON'T TAKE THEM OFF. I AM STILL NOT YELLING, BUT YOU ARE STILL A CLOSE MINDED PERSON. AS FOR YOUR BEDSIDE MANNER, THAT IS WHAT YOU SAY. YOUR PATIENTS MIGHT NOT THINK YOU ARE THAT HOT. EVER SEE MISERY? OR IT COULD JUST BE THE OTHER FACE YOU PUT ON TO REMAIN EMPLOYED SO YOU DON'T BECOME IMPOVERISHED.