[HM2Viking]

Is it a wise use of tax dollars to have a system where medicaid patients are prescribed more expensive drugs to treat yeast infections because the OTC remedies aren't covered by medicaid? Wouldn't it be a better program if the Medicaid formulary rules were changed to cover OTC meds? Of course that would cut into Big PHRMA profits.

As to the comment about having children only when affordable that is an offensive statement. Life circumstances do change. People fall from the middle class into working poor or poverty. There needs to be a protective mechanism for children to mitigate the very real harm that poverty causes. Children are our greatest resource as a society. At some level that means that there is a mutual responsibility for ensuring an environment that promotes healthy growth and development.

And that does mean helping their parents find/develop the resources to improve the living situation of the family.

In response to my own post. I really don't believe that anyone truly makes it on their own without some help from society as a whole. The post addressed the problems of living as either working poor or poor in our society. Poor health is a barrier to achievement. Access to nutritious food, clean air, safe housing, affordable health care all help people to escape poverty as this mitigates the harmful effects of poverty.

[bigreddog1934]

the idea that anyone can "claw" themselves out of poverty is an argument advanced by the wealthy, one that started with the industrial revolution to justify why a few individuals could own so much while millions lived without. trace this argument back through its historic roots and you will find its parents to be the rockefellers and carnigies.

no one said that it is impossible to work out of poverty. but the powerful will always intervene when too much wealth or power finds its hands into working people. any student of economics has heard the term "healthy" unemployment. it means you have a permanant layer of desperate people to help keep wages down and profits up. why hasnt the federal reserve ever in its history, made a positive remark about full employment? it would be contrary to its mission - keep profit growing.

yes poverty is a systemic creation that is comprised of millions of individuals. it costs all of us, but nothing like the costs of maintaining the wealthy. check your statistics.

[hajiagambo]

[quote=withasmilelpn;2432732]

Originally Posted by Jolie

Before you vilify politicians and taxpayers who are tired of funding entitlement after entitlement, how about demanding some personal responsibility? People shouldn't have children they can't reasonably afford to raise.[/quote
What about people who had well paying jobs and then lost them and their health insurance? Our family went through a patch like that, we made it through but just barely. Now we are better than ever.You need to remember that circumstances can change for anyone and that children are yours for 18+ years. A lot can happen in that time! I'm not going to judge anybody having lived it for myself.

You are so right my dear, and thanks for your reply.

[Jolie]

Originally Posted by HM2Viking

As to the comment about having children only when affordable that is an offensive statement. [b]Life circumstances do change. People fall from the middle class into working poor or poverty. There needs to be a protective mechanism for children to mitigate the very real harm that poverty causes.

You and I clearly disagree on what is "offensive". I find it offensive that you have repeatedly ignored the portion of my post where I state that I am not referring to those who suffer a change in circumstances due to temporary unemployment, debilitating illness, injury, or advanced age. I am referring, and always have referred to those who choose not to complete their education, get a job, or work to improve their lives, but rather expect their fellow citizens' to pay their living expenses and those of their children, and then have the nerve to complain that their entitlements are lacking. That is truly offensive.

[HM2Viking]

Poor health is a barrier to academic and economic achievement. Access to nutritious food, clean air, safe housing, affordable health care all help people to escape poverty as this mitigates the harmful effects of poverty.

Franl;y, it is very easy to kick the dog to displace one's own frustration about perceived economic injustice for one's own situation. The original point of the excerpt was the impact of poor health on people's ability to achieve economic success within society. A truly prolife society is dedicated to meeting the needs of children because it is simply the right thing to do.

I have very consistently argued that it is in the broad interest of society to help the poor develop job skills that pay a living wage as this helps to reduce dependency on EITC, section 8 etc. Giving people the help to achieve these skills is hardly facilitating dependence.

[withasmilelpn]

Originally Posted by Jolie

You and I clearly disagree on what is "offensive". I find it offensive that you have repeatedly ignored the portion of my post where I state that I am not referring to those who suffer a change in circumstances due to temporary unemployment, debilitating illness, injury, or advanced age. I am referring, and always have referred to those who choose not to complete their education, get a job, or work to improve their lives, but rather expect their fellow citizens' to pay their living expenses and those of their children, and then have the nerve to complain that their entitlements are lacking. That is truly offensive.

First off, I don't find your opinions offensive. I think disagreements are healthy and can offer opportunities to find solutions one side might have not have thought of.
I don't disagree with personal responsibility at all, however think back to the time when you may have made some bad choices in your life. Ever drink as a teenager, hang around friends your parents wouldn't approve of, think that your parents didn't know anything, etc. At no point in my younger years was I prepared for the level of responsibility or aware of the financial issues I would face having children. Young adults and teenagers don't have any ideas of the consequences of their actions many times. They make bad choices that have lasting effects on their lives.
Even with good parents like mine, I wasn't prepared.(I plan on introducing my children to money management and involving them in our finances, they already have bank accounts at 8, 7, and 5 years of age, and we emphasize educations importance)
Now couple that impulsive 'it doesn't apply to me' attitude with uneducated parenting, poor schooling, and bad environments, it is easy to see what could happen.
The goverment has a tendency to make one size fits all regulations that really don't fix the problem and can make matters worse.
Yes there are people who will 'take advantage of the system' (even though I don't think much of the sort of life it offers), just like there will always be dead beat dads and criminals. But I agree with the other posters that say we are all interdependant on each other as a society. We should and need to help each other in order to succeed.

[withasmilelpn]

I left out the fact that it is not so easy to go back to school either. I have some college and I intend to finish and get my RN, but I choose not to while my children are so young. I would absolutely put money down that the ones who kept down 2 jobs and raised children ( or went to school) had good support systems; either that or their children suffered. The prospect of going to school now is daunting, even though I'm sure I'll do ok. Just think of some of the CNA's you may work with. I encourage all of them to go back to school and offer my help when they do. Many struggle with the basics and still need to get their GED. There is assistance available, but many times you have to pay up front and then you are reimbursed. I don't think it always come down to 'laziness' or motivation that people don't go on to further their education.

[rita359]

Originally Posted by earle58

i admire your will, marla.
but don't you think it may be easier for a white person to claw their way out, than a person of color?
i'm just trying to be realistic.

and back on topic, yes, i do feel there should be a societal contribution to helping those less fortunate.
and yes, viking, it would make perfect sense for medicaid to cover otc meds.
but as you've implied, greed is the driving force that quells common sense and sound judgment.

leslie

Its not simple for anyone to "claw their way out of poverty", black, white, or whatever. That should not be another reason not to try. Anyone can come up with reasons not to try.

[HM2Viking]

Posting the excerpt was also made to emphasize the importance of wisely spending medical dollars.

[Suesquatch]

Originally Posted by Jolie

Before you vilify politicians and taxpayers who are tired of funding entitlement after entitlement, how about demanding some personal responsibility? People shouldn't have children they can't reasonably afford to raise.

Well, thank you for pointing that out.

Have the poor stopped having babies now?

Oh. Well. Then let's punish the children because their parents had them.