[sbic56]

Originally Posted by MultipurposeRN

Haven't read all the threads, sorry. But I thought most nursing homes had CMT's already. They do around here, at least..they take extra training to be Diabetic cert'd. Seems to work ok. If not them they use LPN's.

The situation is similar here. Med techs and CNA-M's have been passing meds in LTC facilities here for as long as I can remember. The med techs I have worked with were some of the most conscientious and dedicated people I've worked with.

I see most posters here have a fear that patients will be harmed if the nurse isn't the one actually putting the pill in the patients hand. My experience has been quite different than that. Med errors were no more prevalent than would have been had an RN or LPN been passing meds, perhaps less, because these med techs weren't split between running an entire floor, caring for patients and passing meds. It's not as if these workers were taking and noting orders. They were pouring and administering p.o. meds as ordered. Nurses still took all orders and noted all orders and assured accuracy prior them being entered on the MAR. Certainly the nurses monitored the patients for effects and side effects. It isn't necesary that the nurse actually give the pill to do that. PRN's were given at the direction of the nurse. The system worked well and freed up the nurse for more complex duties and yes, the dreaded paperwork, that is not going away anytime soon. LTC RN's have not ended up in litagation because a facility used med techs.

I agree that we would need to advocate for ourselves to assure med techs weren't actaully replacing RN's, but the safety factor is not an issue, IMO.

[sbic56]

Originally Posted by windsurfr

"At some point, you have to say: "no more unlicensed professionals" doing our job."


- This is another subject I know, and I will get flamed for this but....
Do you realize that this is EXAXCTLY why physicians are frusterated with mid-levels pushing to increase their responsibilities. Yet you dont understand why.

"Mid-levels" should be able to increase their responsibilities as appropriate, because they are competent and able to perform certain duties previously believed to be the domain of the physician only. No need for anyone to become frustrated. Thank you for helping me make my point.

[bonder]

I am a nursing student

i am going to school to pass meds

i have to get a license

idea is novel but i dont like it

[RN4NICU]

Originally Posted by windsurfr

"At some point, you have to say: "no more unlicensed professionals" doing our job."


- This is another subject I know, and I will get flamed for this but....
Do you realize that this is EXAXCTLY why physicians are frusterated with mid-levels pushing to increase their responsibilities. Yet you dont understand why.

Actually, it is quite a bit different. The med aide would be practicing under SOMEONE ELSE's license (the nurse's). The mid-level provider (at least the NP) practices under his/her OWN license, not the physicians. Apples and oranges.

[windsurfr]

We could argue about qualifications/titles/etc... but it would be pointless. I simply thought that it was an interesting parallel for those with less training to be doing similar work.
Also: NP's and PA's dont get sued, the physicians do... so they do have legal liability.
Again, I simply thought it was an interesting parallel...

[sbic56]

Originally Posted by RN4NICU

Actually, it is quite a bit different. The med aide would be practicing under SOMEONE ELSE's license (the nurse's). The mid-level provider (at least the NP) practices under his/her OWN license, not the physicians. Apples and oranges.

I know your post was directed at windsrfr, but wanted to say I think his/her comparison was accurate. I remember an incident where a CNM attended a labor and delivery which had a poor outcome and the lawyer went after both the midwife and the on call doc. When the NP/CNM/PA is working under the supervision of a physician, the physician is liable.

[RN4NICU]

A lawyer will go after everyone whose name appears on the chart. Not all advanced practice nurses work under the direction of a physician.

[SmilingBluEyes]

In OB, anyhow, I can attest, they will go after every name in the chart, if they can, in a lawsuit. I personally know nurses who have been to hell and back in court and lived (barely) to tell the tale. Some are no longer practicing in OB or even in nursing, any longer.

I would prefer NOT having someone giving meds under my name, period. I have enough to worry about, just in my own practices.

[QMA_David]

Having worked as a Medication Tech and CNA for the past 13 years I can't believe this is still an issue. Actually yes I can, its almost always from new grad Nurses or "Ole Schoolers"
I spent 2 years in Nursing homes and 8 years in Pediatric Burn and post op floors. I am now the QMA for a 40 bed icf unit in ltc.
In hospitals I started about 7 IV's in a 12 hour shift, drew more labs then I care to remember, called codes, saved a few lifes by starting CPR and using an automated External Defibb.
Your only good as your training and better with experience. I have a folder full of awards, cards, and letter of thanks for many many patients. Simply I love my work.
However I can't believe in the year 2005 when the true Nursing shortage is just beginning that people are still saying " I don't trust a Medication Tech"
People like this need to wake up, its only going to get worse and giving respect and good training to your aides will only enhance your shift, career and outcome of your patients. Hell I know a guy who wouldn't let a ER LPN start his piv. He didn't think she was a "real nurse" and demanded an RN. So really you see its all about perception. I know some horrible Med Techs, horrible CNA's and some horrible Nurses, even some pretty shabby Docs. People get to wrapped up in titles and forget what we are here for. To work as a team to achieve the highest level of care possible for that patient. I've had Rn's verbally fight to have me and several other great techs paired with them on their assignments.
Thanks for allowing me to express my experience and opinion.....David

[Marie_LPN, RN]

First off, calling those that disagree with you "ego maniacs" does not help your opinion.

People like this need to wake up, its only going to get worse and giving respect and good training to your aides will only enhance your shift, career and outcome of your patients.

Respect is a two way street.


Said it serveral times, i'll say it again, i am not putting my license on the line for someone that's unlicensed to pass meds. Has notghing to do with my "ego", it has to do with my license and reputation as a nurse. Nothing about this idea would ease my burden, it would only ADD to it.