[Sheri257]

Even if these students "win" on the ATI, I seriously doubt this will benefit students overall. Believe me ... the faculty is not going to be happy about all of this and, I would be willing to bet money that they'll find ways to do what they want anyway.

I wouldn't be surprized to hear a year from now that the teachers in this program will suddenly be enforcing rules that never were enforced before ... and it won't bode well for the students. Faculty has a lot of discretion and, when students create a hostile situation and big public stink like this ... they can use that discretion against you, easily.

Students tend to forget that while teachers are sometimes unfair, they also give you a lot of breaks along the way. Those breaks can easily disappear when students create hostile and, even worse, publicly embarrassing situations for the faculty.

I'll bet the faculty will just make the program tougher, and they'll be well within their rights when they do it. I actually feel really bad for the students who will follow because, they will probably pay the price for this.

[morte]

lizz, me dear, me thinks ye be talking out of both sides of your oral orifice....first you say that if they were being taught what they needed to know, this wouldnt be a prob,,,now you saying since they have proved their point that these supposed adult educated instructors are going to take it out on subsequent students......by teaching them MORE.......hmmmm

[Jolie]

Originally Posted by lizz

Even if these students "win" on the ATI, I seriously doubt this will benefit students overall. Believe me ... the faculty is not going to be happy about all of this and, I would be willing to bet money that they'll find ways to do what they want anyway.

I wouldn't be surprized to hear a year from now that the teachers in this program will suddenly be enforcing rules that never were enforced before ... and it won't bode well for the students. Faculty has a lot of discretion and, when students create a hostile situation and big public stink like this ... they can use that discretion against you, easily.

Students tend to forget that while teachers are sometimes unfair, they also give you a lot of breaks along the way. Those breaks can easily disappear when students create hostile and, even worse, publicly embarrassing situations for the faculty.

I'll bet the faculty will just make the program tougher, and they'll be well within their rights when they do it. I actually feel really bad for the students who will follow because, they will probably pay the price for this.

So what would you have done if you had successfully completed the classroom and clinical portion of your nursing education program with a "B" average, only to have your diploma/degree and NCLEX eligibility with-held from you because of your inability to achieve a "satisfactory" score on an exam that was being used in a manner inconsistent with the test's stated purpose?

[Sheri257]

Originally Posted by morte

lizz, me dear, me thinks ye be talking out of both sides of your oral orifice....first you say that if they were being taught what they needed to know, this wouldnt be a prob,,,now you saying since they have proved their point that these supposed adult educated instructors are going to take it out on subsequent students......by teaching them MORE.......hmmmm

And I think you need to go back and reread the posts. I think you're mistaken and attributing someone else's post to mine.

I never said if they were being taught everything they needed to know, this wouldn't be a problem. In fact, if you do actually read my posts, I readily acknowledged that they don't always teach you what you need to know to pass tests during nursing school or otherwise.

But, at the same time, students also sometimes forget material that they did get, because there's so much of it. Especially when it was taught a couple of years ago.

That's what I said.

And, btw, there are many ways instructors can make the program a hellava lot tougher, without teaching you anything more. Not allowing taping of lectures is just one of many examples of this, and they have every right to do disallow taping under board rules, if they want.

[Sheri257]

Originally Posted by Jolie

So what would you have done if you had successfully completed the classroom and clinical portion of your nursing education program with a "B" average, only to have your diploma/degree and NCLEX eligibility with-held from you because of your inability to achieve a "satisfactory" score on an exam that was being used in a manner inconsistent with the test's stated purpose?

Personally, I'd never put myself in that position to begin with, which is why I bought the ATI practice exams and shared the expense with my classmates.

Did these students do the ATI practice exams ... which are readily available to anyone who wants them? You can easily view them online if you want to.

Because if they didn't do the practice exams and prepare then, there's no excuse ... just like there'd be no excuse for not preparing for any exam.

[pegasus12164]

Its kind of like in Az LPNs have to take another LPN board exam called the HESI-PN to be placed into an RN program.We were tested once, passed, been licensed and practicing. So why all this? Also I'm upset I have to take a NET exam. Nurse Entrance Exam. All it is, is math and reading. I took refresher courses first. Got a+. 4.0 and 4.5. But I can't score high enough on this exam to register for the Rn program.All the pre-recs I took: maintained 4.0 average. The NET has no medical questions on it at all. But yet, I'm an LPN for 22 years. Proffessional student for more than I care to admit: still waiting to get into a program. I've taken the test 4 times. Always missing one section by a point or two.
Pegasus, LPN
FRUSTRATED!!!!

[nursemi]

Oh Lizzzzzzz

Your statements about these students are based on assumptions. But I understand you are not their attorney and you do not have the evidence in front of you, and you probably haven't researched the whole topic(s).

Fact---- These students' have had A's and B's through out the whole nursing program.
Fact-- This is a nation wide crisis. Why? Because there are 90 students in Toledo, more in North Carolina, Georgia, and Florida etc.


You mean to tell me, that NATIONWIDE 75% of students who failed the exam are not studying?

You mean to tell me, that all those nurses who did not pass the NCLEX RN exam after the second or third time should give their nursing license back, because you don't feel they are smarter than you. I know quite a few nurses who work at a University Hospital Trauma Unit, who will tell you it took them more than once, twice and even third time before passing the NCLEX. I would love to see you compare your intelligience with theirs.
Maybe, I should tell a few attorneys and doctors the same thing. One attorney it took him four times before he passed the Bar Exam. Now, he is a very prominent judge.

You mean to tell me, that it is okay for these teachers not to comply with the HESI/ATI procedure/criteria of its usage?

Remember, "Women's Rights," if people did not fight for what they believe in, you and I would still be saying "yes sir" "no sir" to ALL MEN!!!
You would of never gotten the opportunity to become a nurse.

If it was me, I would find out why 75% NATION WIDE of the nursing students are failing the ATI/HESI exams, and try to find a solution to make it better.
Right, NURSE?

Remember the purpose of why the Wright Brothers invented the airplane - for the Good, what happened when people used it for evil.

SO NURSE OVERALL.....

You don't want anyone who is smarter than you
You believe in NOT complying with procedures
You don't know statistics
You don't like to research
Now that you got yours, who cares about others

WOW Lizz ---

Statistically Lizz there are more nurses who advocate the students, than those who do not.

[nursesaideBen]

In the LPN program I'm in we use the ATI for our exams and to study for NCLEX, we have to get at least 70 on it to pass our exams. It's tough but you can take practice exams etc to prepare and our NCLEX pass rates have improved since they started using ATI.

[nursemi]

BY THE WAY LIZZ:

If you ever come into work one morning, and there are 25 patients on your unit, with 2 nurses aids, and you are the only RN on the unit. Administration cannot pull anyone from any of the other unit. Don't complain, don't say a word... just take care of the 25 patients. Because you knew before going into and completing the program that there is a nurses' shortage. If you complain, and the medical field is such a network base field, you will be targeted as the nurse who complains. So, don't stick up for yourself, just kiss some asssssssssss. You will be a Lizz the smart nurse who "would never ever put herself in that situation."

I see that you have posted comments such as "I don't like bedside care because patients are mean and its HELL." "You don't want to be anyone's matyr." You are too old, and you are only in it for the money.

Wow, now I know what kind of a nurse you really are.

It is okay to be ignorant, but to stay ignorant is so WRONG!

[Jolie]

Originally Posted by lizz

Personally, I'd never put myself in that position to begin with, which is why I bought the ATI practice exams and shared the expense with my classmates.

Did these students do the ATI practice exams ... which are readily available to anyone who wants them? You can easily view them online if you want to.

Because if they didn't do the practice exams and prepare then, there's no excuse ... just like there'd be no excuse for not preparing for any exam.

I have no way of knowing whether these students studied using ATI practice exams or not. No matter really, as it is irrelevant information. There are numerous satisfactory ways of preparing for ANY exam. I am sure you are aware that studying ATI practice material is no guarantee of passing, just as taking an NCLEX review is no guarantee of passing that exam either.

I suspect that you are very idealistic, and have not been practicing nursing long. I don't mean that as a slam, simply a statement of my opinion that you seem to have very strong black and white opinions of this (and other situations on other threads) that I believe will change with time. To state that you'd never put yourself in that position to begin with leads me to believe that you haven't had enough experience in nursing to realize that professional nurses find themselves in all sorts of less-than-ideal situations that are not ALWAYS of their own choosing or making. A critical thinker will find a way out of such a situation in a manner that does not compromise their professionalism. I believe that is exactly what these students have accomplished.