[Marie_LPN]

It you can't deal with change then leave, go, bye-bye. Go sit out on a porch somewhere and stagnate and wallow in your negative energy. Step aside so others who aren't afraid to pick up the torch and run with it can carry on and move things forward.

There's zero reason to put down those that disagree with your stance, really.

[Daytonite]

Originally Posted by Marie_LPN

There's zero reason to put down those that disagree with your stance, really.

I haven't heard one person disagreeing with my position. Not even you. Please take me on! I saw how this turned out 20 years ago. Fact is, most are talking a good plan of action but really don't know what they're going to end up doing if this issue comes knocking on their door. Crying in their beer is all. Crying and hoping it won't happen where they work because they'll have to make a decision about what they're going to do about it. You know what they'll do, Marie? What the boss tells them to do! Been there! Seen it! There are some fights you just aren't gonna win, and this is one of 'em.

[weirdRN]

Originally Posted by Daytonite

I haven't heard one person disagreeing with my position. Not even you. Please take me on! I saw how this turned out 20 years ago. Fact is, most are talking a good plan of action but really don't know what they're going to end up doing if this issue comes knocking on their door. Crying in their beer is all. Crying and hoping it won't happen where they work because they'll have to make a decision about what they're going to do about it. You know what they'll do, Marie? What the boss tells them to do! Been there! Seen it! There are some fights you just aren't gonna win, and this is one of 'em.

Hey! Cut that out! tears in the beer makes the beer taste Nasty!

You are most likely right Daytonite. Somethings just aren't worth the trouble of fighting. In LTC, some home care and homes for MR and DD, I can see the value of MedAides. However, I pray that the powers that be recognize that either an RN or LPN needs to be there when a patient is first put on a medication, and in acute care settings. If they do not, I will not accept it. the med aide will be sitting on their tushy answering phones or putting together blank sets of paperwork or doing other aide oriented tasks. I feel very strongly about this and Noone will persuade me otherwise. This is something I feel is worth fighting.

As for what I posted earlier, I have an obligation to ensure that every med aide that works under me is competent in their performance of the tasks delegated to them. If I did not I would be negligent. So that means that I must question and ascertain whether or not they have been adequately educated and trained in performance of their task. If they have not it is my job to either take back the task or educateand train them myself. As I said I see their value. I am willing to teach them and monitor them until I feel they are ready to have less supervision.

[lee1]

Originally Posted by nursebiz5

Ohio has launched the Certified Medication Aid program, I can't believe they are actually doing this. I visited the Board of Nsg. website to view the curriculum, do you know that they are receiving 70 hours of training before throwing them out to pass meds. HMMMMM.... what's wrong with this picture. Why not train the janitor.

and what was the Ohio Board of Nursing's reaction to all of this?????

[NicInNC]

I'm a CNA and my facility uses Med Aids (we call them Med Techs). They won't even hire CNA's anymore unless they agree to become a Med Tech. It's now a requirement at my facility.

I was hired before that rule went into effect though. I got all my Med Tech training, memorized everything and then gave it all back. I will NOT be a Med Tech. I don't want the responsibility and it cuts back on my time that I get to spend with my residents.

Plus, I'm currently in a Phlebotomy course and I am putting all my extra time into that.

[SMK1]

Originally Posted by HeartsOpenWide

This seems like enough training to me. Dosn't the nurse tell them what pills to give, how much, ect? All they do is count the ones from the bottle, put them in a little cup and pass them out? I don't see what the big deal is if they are not having to make any decisions....its not rocket science.

the problem comes in because there needs to be an assesment of the person as you are giving out the pills. An aide won't know enough about signs/symptoms of adverse reactions, toxicity, allergies etc.. to know when to hold the med. The nurse needs to assess the patient and be able to answer questions and do patient education along with the motor skill of handing out the pills.

[VickyRN]

Originally Posted by NicInNC

I'm a CNA and my facility uses Med Aids (we call them Med Techs). They won't even hire CNA's anymore unless they agree to become a Med Tech. It's now a requirement at my facility.

I was hired before that rule went into effect though. I got all my Med Tech training, memorized everything and then gave it all back. I will NOT be a Med Tech. I don't want the responsibility and it cuts back on my time that I get to spend with my residents.

Plus, I'm currently in a Phlebotomy course and I am putting all my extra time into that.

Many of these same LTC facilities in NC are not hiring LPN's in favor of the med aides It all boils down to less $$$$ Our frail elderly residents deserve better. Here in NC, all that is required to become a med aide is 24 hours' worth of training. And this is with the full blessing (and instigation) of our board of nursing

[Retired R.N.]

Originally Posted by Daytonite

I'm sorry, but I just can't help but laugh at what hypocrites some of you are. I heard RNs protesting that they weren't going to let LPNs pass meds or start any of their IVs when the laws changed before. To qualify, LPNs had to take a medication course and I'm not sure it was even 70 hours long. The IV certification course was only 30 hours long. The hospital I worked at gave it's LPNs 2 years to get their medication certifications. LPNs were saying they were going to quit before they'd start giving any medications. Where are all of those RNs and LPNs now? They've changed their minds, dudes! Because it all worked out. LPNs still don't give IV narcotics, but no one ever questions their ability to give oral medications. I think that most of you didn't live through that transition. But, let me assure you that it was a big controversy. Every night at work that was one of the topics of conversation between the RNs and LPNs on the staff. RNs were mad that LPNs were being given such a big responsibility; LPNs were mad that they were being forced to do something they never asked for. Medication administration never used to be taught in LPN school, so when this was granted to LPNs to do they had to learn it from no knowledge base at all--just like medication aides are going to have to. Some procedures are very, very routine and lend themselves to this kind of delegation.

One thing about nursing and healthcare that never changes is that it is always changing. It you can't deal with change then leave, go, bye-bye. Go sit out on a porch somewhere and stagnate and wallow in your negative energy. Step aside so others who aren't afraid to pick up the torch and run with it can carry on and move things forward.

The historical facts are not exactly as you seem to think they are. There were schools of practical nursing that were teaching medication administration at least as long as 50 years ago. It all depended upon the state where they were located. Just as it does now. the emphasis on the financial status of the institution was the driving force behind the attitudes toward staffing and personnel utilization. Today there are some states where an LVN can legally do just about everything that an RN can do, and there are some who do it very, very well! There are even LVNs who are directors of nursing in LTC facilities.

Nursing will make a big move forward when we have enough truly educated nurses and members of the general public who are willing to recognize and reward the positive contributions made by the hard-working people we have in our entry-level positions -- the CNAs.

[PANurseRN1]

Originally Posted by Nascar nurse

I have worked in LTC over 20+ years. There has always been medication aides since I started way back when in this state. I NEVER thought anything of it until I began on this forum. It is just considered the "norm" here and EVERY facility does it the same. And I must add, we have some really awesome ones too - some I'd rather have take care of my loved one then some of the nurses I have seen with licenses! Here, nurses are in charge of them just like the CNA's. They are licensed by the state and held accountable for their actions. Nurses are to delegate and monitor them just like they do a CNA. QMA's (as we refer to them here) sign off for any medication they pass, nurses co-sign for PRN's. I guess I have just worked like this for so long, I fail to see the big deal. Like any other employee - if they can't do the job correctly and accurately, they are fired.

They don't stand on their own "license," though. If a mistake happens and there's a bad outcome, it's the nurse who will take it on the chin.

I just refuse to work anywhere that uses QMAs or whatever designation they have.

[VickyRN]

Originally Posted by PANurseRN1

They don't stand on their own "license," though. If a mistake happens and there's abad outcome, it's the nurse who will take it on the chin.

I just refuse to work anywhere that uses QMAs or whatever designation they have.

My thoughts exactly. If you go to the NCBON website, it is abundantly clear that the licensed nurse is responsible for any and all adverse events that may occur with medication aides under his or her watch.