[Elvish]

Originally Posted by cardiacRN2006

There's no process? Am I missing something? Yes, there is a process, it's just long and painful, but it's there.

What the PP meant is that instead of waiting for the process (which I hear can take 10+ years) they cross illegal anyway.

Most people I've known cross while waiting for the paperwork, and then become legal after living here for years.

For people from a lot of other places, the process is not nearly as long and painful as it is for people from Mexico. That is unfair. When my friends from Europe can fill out a form and bam! they're here, and I can't bring my dh's family here from Mexico on a tourist visa because there are none, that is not fair.

10+ years? Closer to twenty. From Mexico, anyway.

My husband cannot 'get legal.' If he can't and he's married to a US citizen and owns property, pays taxes, and speaks English, there is NOT a process for him to go through, and yes, I am going to have a bone to pick with the lack of a process.

I'm not saying there should be a free-for-all at any port of entry into the US. But it were equally easy or equally hard for EVERYONE to get here no matter where they are from, I think we would see far fewer problems. And far fewer headlines like the one in the OP.

[Elvish]

We see this same rational of our government regarding torture. No, harm done, we got the information we wanted didn't we? But, please remember, there is no guarantee that what the government uses unjustifiably or as they see fit justifiably against "breakers of the law" or "suspected terrorists" can be used against us if we don't agree with the policies of this government or future governments.

Apart from the personal aspect of this issue, this is what disturbs me the most. Who is to say they are not going to do this to ME should they one day decide that I'm a threat to national security because I don't agree with the war or whatever reason.

[HM2Viking]

Originally Posted by Elvish

Unlawful presence in the US is a civil charge, not a criminal charge.

And, as someone who is slap dab in the middle of this process, for most of the people being vilified here, there is no process for them to be immigrants the legal way. It's not a 'refusal', as much as you want to make it out to be. And how about the people who come here legally but overstay their visa? You seem to overlook them and make the assumption that all of the 'illegal aliens' (not my favorite term) are jumping the fence.

Forgive my strong reaction but I know many many many undocumented people and they are not the parasitic, America-hating, job-stealing leeches they are made out to be.

I read an article about this sedation business the other day....and I am still angered about it.

.

Not to mention the citizens deported because they were hispanic......

There are cases of (now) twentysomethings being deported who lived lawfully in the US from the age of 2. They have no cultural connection to their new country and are now in fact stateless as a result of our process.

[aeauooo]

Having spent over two years in Africa and lived in Tehran in 1978, it is my observation that many, perhaps most, Americans have little comprehension or appreciation of the prosperity, wealth, and opportunities we enjoy in this country.

People who come to the U.S. do so to improve their quality of life, they do not, as a rule, come here with malicious intentions. These are not people who come here to do us harm, so why should we treat them as lower forms of life, unworthy of basic human rights and dignity?

[TiredMD]

Originally Posted by aeauooo

People who come to the U.S. do so to improve their quality of life, they do not, as a rule, come here with malicious intentions. These are not people who come here to do us harm, so why should we treat them as lower forms of life, unworthy of basic human rights and dignity?

I've sedated people from all walks of life against their will, most of them American citizens. The one thing they all had in common was that they were acting crazy and making my life difficult

I like to think of this as an example of true equality, regardless of race, gender, national origin, or creed.

[cardiacRN2006]

So you're ok with sedating people just to make your life easier? Really?

[marina17]

Originally Posted by aeauooo

Having spent over two years in Africa and lived in Tehran in 1978, it is my observation that many, perhaps most, Americans have little comprehension or appreciation of the prosperity, wealth, and opportunities we enjoy in this country.

People who come to the U.S. do so to improve their quality of life, they do not, as a rule, come here with malicious intentions. These are not people who come here to do us harm, so why should we treat them as lower forms of life, unworthy of basic human rights and dignity?

you are sooo right.....how can someone be treated less than human because of where they are from?????
who knows their situation as to why they have a need to leave...at such high risk...
and what about the children?????they get sedated too

Yes I DO have strong feelings about this because..if we fail on the basic human rights and dignity of ALL people especially as a nurse...then what are we all about...this is not to say that the people that try to "cross" are in the right but sedating them for nooooo medical reason is wrong..I for one as a nurse would tell themo this yourself...my job is to help people and not harm them...no matter who they are..remember when....people got beaten to say at the least for who they are..what they believed and..stood for..prayed too..looked down on..why???
and not so long ago people with a mental illness...had very little rights..locked up like prisoners....no compassion..why did take us soo long to understand and accept the people that are different...
sorry that this thread is so long...I just feel that as a nurse we must help people and I for one would not sedate a person on account of reasons other than medical...thats me..I do not agree with those that would however everyone is free to believe what they want to....and I respect that.

[aeauooo]

Originally Posted by cardiacRN2006

So you're ok with sedating people just to make your life easier? Really?

I think there are more than a few ICU nurses who have received patients from the ED who were paralyzed and intubated because they were beligerent - I have.

The question that I've never heard answered is whether or not the patient received sedation with the paralytic.

[cardiacRN2006]

Originally Posted by aeauooo

I think there are more than a few ICU nurses who have received patients from the ED who were paralyzed and intubated because they were beligerent - I have.

The question that I've never heard answered is whether or not the patient received sedation with the paralytic.

These are PATIENTS. They aren't being "dumped" back into their own country defenseless with nobody there to protect and monitor them. Patients are in a protected environment and have consented either verbally or it is implied.

A very huge difference in my book. Illegal aliens being deported don't consent for this sedation (my guess, anyway). Plus, this kind of sedation isnt' implied.

Also, to paralyze and intubate a pt because they are a jerk is poor practice IMO. I don't see that much. Maybe because we are smaller and only have so many ICU beds that can't be filled with the countless jerks that come in to the ED. 99% of our intubated pts acutally needed to be intubated.


As for your second question, I can't control what happens in the ED, but once they are my pt they are getting orders for sedation. They usually sit in the ED for hours waiting for a bed, so for the most part, all of our intubated pts come from the ED on sedation as the paralysis has worn off.

[TiredMD]

Originally Posted by cardiacRN2006

So you're ok with sedating people just to make your life easier? Really?

No, or every patient in the hospital (and probably most of my coworkers) would be in a Valium-induced haze every night of the week.

But when patients are making my life hard, it usually means that they're trying to hurt themselves or others, are delerious, or for whatever reason are generally not in control of their actions.

And to me, those are all fantastic reasons to give sedation without asking if it's okay.