[Vito Andolini]

Originally Posted by BlueRidgeHomeRN

OKAY, I know the responses you've been getting here are not what you had hoped for, but comparing the sedation of illegal aliens to the Holcaust is unwarrented and insulting.

Why is it unwarranted and insulting?

[Vito Andolini]

Originally Posted by Balder_LPN

Assault is defined as:

1. An unlawful threat or attempt to do bodily injury to another.
2. The act or an instance of unlawfully threatening or attempting to injure another.

Battery is defined as:
The unlawful and unwanted touching or striking of one person by another, with the intention of bringing about a harmful or offensive contact.

So here is a question. Is there a LAW on any books about a prisoners right to refuse medical treatment or sedation? I dont think so. Therefore forced medication, medical treatment, or sedation does not seem to be illegal, regardless of ones moral/ethical objections to it. The law (in general), while based on morals and ethics, is not by itself moral or ethical, it is just the law. What?

Face it, people who have not lost thier freedom have more rights than those who have lost their freedom.

Nothing could be further from the truth re: health care rights of prisoners. Just try denying care to a prisoner or inmate in a prison or jail here is America.

That said, I'm sure the Fed gov has it all worked out so that what they are doing is legal, if just barely. Sort of like red light cameras - not legal in most places but you have to challenge the tickets you get from the operators of them.

[BlueRidgeHomeRN]

Because sedation and deportation is much less of an offense against human rights than torture and mass genocide as practiced by the Nazis.....

...and it is unwarrented because it is inflammatory hyperbole, and diminishing to the horror that was the Holocaust. It effectively equates ear piercing with vivasection, to present a simple analogy.

[Vito Andolini]

Originally Posted by canoehead

I'm an immigrant and I don't find sedation barbaric. Whatever makes the process easier to complete is up for grabs IMO. Once someone comes in illegally they need to face the consequences. They've implied consent to whatever the system does to handle them.

People imply consent when they enter an ER. If they wander into an OR, it's not like that.

I would be willing to bet that they are not doing quite the same thing when they enter the US illegally. I'm not sure, would love to hear some lawyers weigh in on that.

[Vito Andolini]

Originally Posted by BlueRidgeHomeRN

Because sedation and deportation is much less of an offense against human rights than torture and mass genocide as practiced by the Nazis.....

...and it is unwarrented because it is inflammatory hyperbole, and diminishing to the horror that was the Holocaust. It effectively equates ear piercing with vivasection, to present a simple analogy.

Alright, I'm thinking about it. I guess I'm wondering where you draw the line since, to my way of thinking, a tiny drip can eventually flood the whole house if not dealt with quickly and effectively. The genocide didn't start out that way. The Final Solution was just that - the final solution. At first, Jews were banned from schools, parks, professions. Then came the ghettoes, starvation, DEPORTATION, then the ovens. I'm skipping over a lot, I realize, no disrespect intended.

I'm thinking, I guess, about the conditions in their homelands that drive illegals to become illegals and about the lives many of them live here - lives of backbreaking, low-paid labor, crowded housing, etc. In some states, it was different - people could get on welfare and really milk the system, making total fools of the taxpayers who supported them. This has probably been changing a lot lately, as well it should. I don't think taxpayers should have to support the populace of other countries. Their own governments and fellow countrymen should help them, as should the employers who reap such huge financial gains because of them.

Also, it's that slippery slope concept - we can break the law in this instance if it suits us. Pretty soon, we'll have no law. Yes, laws change, laws need to be flexible and need to be applicable to modern conditions but where does it all stop? We have to protect the powerless so that we ourselves are protected.

Vivisection, warrant - interesting concepts. Thank you, you do have me at least thinking this over.

Vito.

[SteveRN21]

I am honestly shocked that we are still discussing this issue as a modern Holocaust. Shame on you.

The immigration issue today is not about cultural eugenics, and the purging of non-Aryan race, it is about people who have knowingly bypassed the (albeit slow) process of legal immigration, and entered this country anyway. (Some multiple times) We're talking about people unwilling to acknowledge the laws of this nation. It's hard to know who to believe in that WP article. Do you believe the medical record that says the patient became progressively combative? Then by all means sedate the person. Or you can believe that the person was completely calm, and sedated anyway. On another note, I have given WAY more Haldol and Ativan than that, and yet to see any "extremely dangerous" side effects.

That article was a "puff piece." There for shock value. To compare sedating deportees to Abu Ghraib? I mean, come on!

We are not herding the elderly, infirm, handicapped, gays, women, babies and children into a gas chamber by the millions, then burning their bodies. We are not peeling off their skin to make lampshades, nor pulling their gold fillings to sell. We are not subjecting them to freakish medical experiments to attempt to sterilize them, make their hair grow in blond, and their eyes turn blue. We are not subjecting men to fatal extremes in temperature and pressure to see how our new flight suits are holding up. We are not pulling them from their homes and forcing them to work themselves to death in labor camps.

It makes me sick to see people comparing the immigration issue to holocaust genocide. Go visit the National Holocaust Museum in Washington DC, and see for yourself.

It's hard to believe that humans can be so cruel to one another.

Being sedated for deportation is not the same as being shot in the back of the head after digging your own grave.