[clee1]

Originally Posted by quakerkid

This death happened because of many poor decisions by many people, as well as our low expectations for EMT's which allow people to become certified without really 'knowing their stuff'.

Thoughts?

Agree wholeheartedly.

EMTs are the "tip of the spear" in emergency medicine.... I just can't imagine this punk making it through licensure 20+ years ago.

[EricJRN]

Originally Posted by quakerkid

My sense from reading the story is that this particular ambulance was BLS (meaning it was being staffed by only EMT's, and not a paramedic). If that is true - there should never have been a defib. on board, since the crew was not licensed to use it. They should have had an AED, which would NOT have been able to shock the young lady. Which supervisor allowed them on the road with equipment they were not licensed to use?!?

Many states certify some ambulances as 'BLS with MICU capability' which means that it must be staffed by a minimum of 2 ECA's/EMT's, but it has paramedic-level equipment on board should the staffing be at that level at any point. For example, in some volunteer agencies, an off-duty paramedic may respond from home if the BLS medics request ALS help. When they meet the crew on scene, they then have the full range of equipment at their disposal. This sounds like a private, paid service, but they may have sometimes had a paramedic supervisor working under a similar arrangement.

But I have to agree that there were places in the system where this could have been avoided.

[quakerkid]

Originally Posted by EricEnfermero

Many states certify some ambulances as 'BLS with MICU capability' which means that it must be staffed by a minimum of 2 ECA's/EMT's, but it has paramedic-level equipment on board should the staffing be at that level at any point. For example, in some volunteer agencies, an off-duty paramedic may respond from home if the BLS medics request ALS help. When they meet the crew on scene, they then have the full range of equipment at their disposal. This sounds like a private, paid service, but they may have sometimes had a paramedic supervisor working under a similar arrangement.

But I have to agree that there were places in the system where this could have been avoided.

Agreed - there are certainly circumstances where I could see a BLS unit needing to have ALS equipment....but do the basics also have access to the narcs? I dont think so - If you need ALS equipment for those times when you 'might' need a medic on board, you better make sure you have it - but it had better be locked up. It wouldnt be so hard to lock up a defib. just like you lock up the morphine.

[CarVsTree]

I'm gonna play devil's advocate for a moment...

Perhaps he believed what many people believe, that a defibrillator restarts the heart. Even the article regarding the incident stated that

Defibrillators are used to restore heartbeats, but they can also stop a heart.

That of course is not what occurs in defibrillation which stops the heart and its dysrythmia in the hopes that the heart will restart itself in sinus.

Martin, though an EMT, was not yet qualified to use the defibrillator and had been told it is not something to play with, Bush said.

He was told not to "play with it" but was he told that it could be deadly? Yes, it is common sense, but when giving people access to potentially deadly equipment, we should never ASSume that said people have common sense.

I believe that justice was served with his conviction, but I also agree with the previous poster that the system has a lot of ills that need to be addressed.

I am so sad for both families involved, but especially the young woman's family. What a sad and avoidable tragedy.

[chadash]

Originally Posted by suemom2kay

I'm gonna play devil's advocate for a moment...

Perhaps he believed what many people believe, that a defibrillator restarts the heart. Even the article regarding the incident stated that
That of course is not what occurs in defibrillation which stops the heart and its dysrythmia in the hopes that the heart will restart itself in sinus.
He was told not to "play with it" but was he told that it could be deadly? Yes, it is common sense, but when giving people access to potentially deadly equipment, we should never ASSume that said people have common sense.

I believe that justice was served with his conviction, but I also agree with the previous poster that the system has a lot of ills that need to be addressed.

I am so sad for both families involved, but especially the young woman's family. What a sad and avoidable tragedy.

You know, you have a really good point here. I think that sometimes technical training does not cover the why or the how things work. EMT basics are trained thoroughly "what to do", but his teacher may have not been even aware of what misinterpretations he was making.

[chadash]

But, then again, it was the height of imaturity to do what he did. Again, those who supervise/trained him might have sensed he lacked the maturity and judgement to be in this position.

[ohioln]

It's so sad! No one should have been put in an ambulance that didn't have that training yet. That was very immature of him anyway. What kind of a health care provider would he have been?

[Undecided7]

I'm sorry, but someone with BASIC EMT knowlege (or anyone past the 8th grade) should have known shocking someone would be very bad. In the story, the other crew even TOLD him not to do it. He may have been a nice kid at home but as a grown working adult- he is STUPID. New cops don't shoot each other and claim, "well I know bullets are bad, but I didn't think it kill him...." COME ON..... I know it sounds harsh, but he should be put away for a lot longer- if for nothing else because he is too stupid to live in society. 2 young children will NEVER be the same.....

[RNgonewild]

That guy is a total a@@! He should go to jail. And they will probably put him in the infirmary to be a helper!

[Focker]

This has very little to do with the story, but I'm too curious, what is the difference in the way the electricity is delivered that can make a defibrillator potentially lethal, but not tazers?