[Pam I Am RN]

Originally Posted by ukstudent

What is going on in this school of nursing? Only just over 21% of the class passed the HESI on the first try. After two trys they are up to 54% and finally after three trys 60 out of 89 (67%) manage to pass it.
Nothing against the students because if only 21% of the graduating class can pass the HESI then something is wrong with the school.

I think the problem is a combination of poor teaching and admittance of marginally qualified students into nursing programs.

[x_coastie]

Good thing in the hospital nurses have three chances to administer the correct drug/dose without any ill effects.
/sarcasm

Honestly, would you want a nurse taking care of you and stating "I only flunked my test two times?"

[msdobson]

Originally Posted by x_coastie

Good thing in the hospital nurses have three chances to administer the correct drug/dose without any ill effects.
/sarcasm

[Treasure30]

Good Morning,
To MSDOBSON, I think there is a lot of factors need to be examine, before we kick out potential NURSES. Yes, it maybe the instructors or the students, not applying themselves.
I have worked with doctors & nurses who could pass a test, teach a class, Yet did not know how to apply what they knew. Could not function, could not assess, could not implement or plan. Just could not function.
Did not know the 1st thing to do if a pt had a elevated temperature. Did not know what to do if the pt woke up disoriented & was not disoriented the day before. Did not know what to do if a pt started profusely sweating. Anyway, Give me a nurse who can function. Do I care if she failed 2 of her / his test previously. He / She have passed at some time, in order to care in the capacity of an RN (be it ADN or BSN). But still, give me someone who can function & know how to make some decisions, can critical think, can apply what they learned.
Maybe, I'm a little sensitive about test. I am a damn good nurse even when I was a nurse assistant, I was told. But those damn test in college, they just did something to me. I did pass my NCLEX the 1st time.
Treasure

[Treasure30]

Good Morning,
I think my message should have been to 'X CPASTIE' instead of 'MSDOBSON'.
Treasure

[Ex130Load]

Originally Posted by x_coastie

Good thing in the hospital nurses have three chances to administer the correct drug/dose without any ill effects.
/sarcasm

Honestly, would you want a nurse taking care of you and stating "I only flunked my test two times?"

To me, basing a nursing skills assessment strictly on the number of attempts to pass HESI or NCLEX is elitist and ignorant. I think a more indicative assessment is based on proficiency and knowledge. I am sure more than one "fine" nurse had a rough start though I couldn't begin to quantify my belief. There are minimum standards for a reason; the sharpest knife in the drawer is not always the best tool. How many of them are there in the first place? Is nursing fully manned with all the sharp knives needed? I fully realize some of the minimum standards folks have room for improvement and may perpetually be on a learning curve, but that is not my point. My bone of contention is blanketing all as substandard if needing more than one attempt to pass.

I remember several classmates ranking top academically and never stumbling on any tests--midterms, finals, HESI, and presumably NCLEX. Within that group, some profoundly lacked interpersonal skills and common sense and while others already were displaying haughtiness and the "holier than thow" attitude because they perceived themselves to be of superior intelligence. In my mind, the last type mentioned demonstrated great potential in becoming the institutional nurse or manager "from hell" that posters mention periodically. I also remember another who cheated with a passion, not she herself per se, but by letting a former roommate and friend copy her tests. That says volumes about integrity and honesty--who benefits by those behaviors?

I encourage x_coastie to re-think his/her perspective regarding assumptions based on the number of test attempts. I do this as a military retiree who supervised two squadrons as top guy on the food chain in my career field. I’ve seen plenty of guys/girls come through my squadrons who according to academic records and initial interaction appeared to be dumber that the proverbial box of rocks. With time and experience, several moved into standards/evaluations sections (quality control for non-military types). Others didn’t, never will, but are solid, basic performers which every institution needs and without whom couldn’t function because there are not enough of the type x_coastie presumably desires.

[Pam I Am RN]

I don't think that anybody is insulting those who have to try harder to pass. I think, and I could be wrong, that at one time it was much more difficult to get into competitive nursing programs and only top students made it in. However do to the recent nursing shortage I think many schools have lowered their entrance requirements and many marginally qualified and students are getting in.

Treasure, the NCLEX tests doesn't test only knowledge which requires nothing more than memorization but critical thinking skills and how they would be applied which are essential to competent nursing. If a potential nurse cannot demonstrate competency on the NCLEX I seriously doubt she will be competent on the floor. That's why there is a minimum standard test in the first place.

EX130 Load; you can teach a monkey to put in a catheter but not why or when one is necessary. While proficiency is important it's not the most important thing. Knowledge is indeed important but you can memorize tons of facts and figures but not know how to apply that information hence the critical thinking testing in the NCLEX.

Think about this: would you want a Dr operating on you that had to take his test 3 or more times?! I wouldn't.

[subee]

Originally Posted by Pam I Am RN

I don't think that anybody is insulting those who have to try harder to pass. I think, and I could be wrong, that at one time it was much more difficult to get into competitive nursing programs and only top students made it in. However do to the recent nursing shortage I think many schools have lowered their entrance requirements and many marginally qualified and students are getting in.

Treasure, the NCLEX tests doesn't test only knowledge which requires nothing more than memorization but critical thinking skills and how they would be applied which are essential to competent nursing. If a potential nurse cannot demonstrate competency on the NCLEX I seriously doubt she will be competent on the floor. That's why there is a minimum standard test in the first place.

EX130 Load; you can teach a monkey to put in a catheter but not why or when one is necessary. While proficiency is important it's not the most important thing. Knowledge is indeed important but you can memorize tons of facts and figures but not know how to apply that information hence the critical thinking testing in the NCLEX.

Think about this: would you want a Dr operating on you that had to take his test 3 or more times?! I wouldn't.

Would you want to drive across a bridge or ride in an elevator designed by someone who passed the third time? Come one - how lenient do we have to be ? At some point in the process, the wheat has to be separated from the chaff. Using the logic that test taking skills don't lead to clinical skills logically implies that people who flunk tests will become great practitioners.

[msdobson]

Originally Posted by Treasure30

Good Morning,
I think my message should have been to 'X CPASTIE' instead of 'MSDOBSON'.
Treasure

Right. Ya had me confused there for a minute.

[msdobson]

My lack of knowledge of the NCLEX exam is absolute, so I will refrain from making comments in that direction.

However, I HAVE taken MANY "entrance" exams for various fields including positions with the county, state and federal government, the police and sheriff departments and MANY colleges and universities.

I, personally, found them to be insultingly easy.

English? Reading Comprehension? Math Skills? All were VERY basic. So basic that any mid-school student should be able to take them and score reasonably well.

But, THAT is beside the point for my initial comments here, and the direction of the initial remarks.

I have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING against foreign nurses. I believe that nurse from all parts of the world deserve the same chance at working in America as I do working in all parts of the rest of the world.

The problem, as I see it, is with comprehension. A nurse who cannot FULLY understand the language cannot FULLY participate in the type of team care that is prevalent in the U.S. healthcare system.

I, myself, would LOVE to someday work in Paris. Do I expect to? Of course not...THEY SPEAK FRENCH. I can't speak a lick of it, nor would I understand the various dialects. What are the French words for milligrams...milliliters...micrograms?

Even if I were to learn them, would I freeze in the middle of an emergency situation, trying like crazy to remember if the word I was reading was for micrograms OR milligrams? When I worked as an NA, then a CNA in California's long-term healthcare system, I worked with many VERY hard working people here from other countries. In no way can I fault them for their job. They worked hard and NEVER complained.

HOWEVER, there were MANY a time where I was present as the LPN or RN was explaining a difficult concept, and they nodded their understanding along with the rest of us, but you could read in their eyes that the hadn't a clue what was being said, and proved it later on when I had to stop them from doing what the LPN/RN JUST TOLD US NOT TO DO.

THAT is my problem with nursing student who DO NOT speak English.

Let the flaming being...I've got my asbestos helmet out.