[tjnurse90]

I guess there is not a whole lot you can do about the situation but pray. Give it to God! He has the perfect plan for you and all of the nurses that servre HIM. I work at Tendercare Gaylord in the Vent unit. I know very well how it is to work with minimal staff and to get paid alot less than nurses in Southern
Michigan. I have to remind myself often that I am serving God through the work that I do. If it wasn't for my faith I don't know if I would stay in Nursing.

I also have a friend that moved up to the Petoskey area from Flint and is making quite alot less an hour at Northern Michigan Hospital. I think unions are an excellent idea. They pay new grad nurses the same wage as nurses with several years of experience at Tendercare. They pay some nurses time and a half if they work over 8 hours in a day and the nurses that work 12 hour shifts don't get overtime unless they work 40 hours a week. I am sure if there was a union in place alot of staffing issues would be resolved too.

[Scraper_1077]

I have been an RN for 21 years. I have been on many professional practice committees, I have precepted many new RNs, I have been published in nursing literature, I have been an advocate for another nurse during problem resolution with management and am always a patient advocate. I have had problems with management over the years, but have always found a way to resolve conflict without the "aide" of any union. I do not eat my young! However, I have witnessed Pro-union nurses calling new grads and other nurses that don't agree with them names like "stupid" just as some have in this thread. I find it interesting that some people get so defensive about this subject that they resort to name calling instead of dealing with the true pros and cons of affiliating with a union. Just as you can't convince a Democrat to be Republican, you can't convince someone who does not beleive in unions to start. We can however persuade new nurses, or nursees who've never had union exposure one way or the other. So, it remains curious to me that pro-union people would call those with opposing views degrading names.
I personally don't see the use for unions in healthcare. I have always been paid what I'm worth and what I ask for (within reason) RNs are a precious commodity and market determines the wage. The old "supply and demand". That is until my hospital went union a couple of years ago, the contract was negotiated and a wage scale was in the contract. The market then changed dramatically and we are not competetive with our market. The non union hospitals in our area pay more. I would leave, but am anxious to be a part of getting this union out of our hospital. Now that most see that this union contract is just a bunch of broken promises, they are ready to vote to go back to speaking for themselves and keeping that $100 a month in dues we are forced to pay whether we want the union or not. I wouldn't want to miss out on that experience. So I'll stay. Money is not everything![/quote]

Nancy2,

You make it sound like we didn't do all those things that you hold so high and mighty about yourself. For years and years we wasted so many man hours in those professional practice commitees for nothing. The number of times we brought pt. care issues to our adm and then being told if we are not happy we can leave and work somewhere else. We didn't get here at the very first sign of trouble, we got here after we found out we couldn't work short anymore and are pt were going to feel the brunt of it. YOU ARE NOT HEARING THE CRY OF YOUR FELLOW NURSES. WE ARE HEAR FOR OUR PATIENTS AND WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER. WE NEED TO UNITE, WE WANT TO UNITE AND WE ARE GOING TO UNITE. It doesn't matter under which banner we unite, I am a nurse and I am a Teamster. Don't get this all confused when nurses do things the right way all careers and it never gets better this is what happens. Unions never come to places were people are taken care of and are happy. This was the third time we tried to bring in a union, do you think the hospital had enough time to fix things.

Charles D. Ku

[lindarn]

Originally Posted by Scraper_1077

I have been an RN for 21 years. I have been on many professional practice committees, I have precepted many new RNs, I have been published in nursing literature, I have been an advocate for another nurse during problem resolution with management and am always a patient advocate. I have had problems with management over the years, but have always found a way to resolve conflict without the "aide" of any union. I do not eat my young! However, I have witnessed Pro-union nurses calling new grads and other nurses that don't agree with them names like "stupid" just as some have in this thread. I find it interesting that some people get so defensive about this subject that they resort to name calling instead of dealing with the true pros and cons of affiliating with a union. Just as you can't convince a Democrat to be Republican, you can't convince someone who does not beleive in unions to start. We can however persuade new nurses, or nursees who've never had union exposure one way or the other. So, it remains curious to me that pro-union people would call those with opposing views degrading names.
I personally don't see the use for unions in healthcare. I have always been paid what I'm worth and what I ask for (within reason) RNs are a precious commodity and market determines the wage. The old "supply and demand". That is until my hospital went union a couple of years ago, the contract was negotiated and a wage scale was in the contract. The market then changed dramatically and we are not competetive with our market. The non union hospitals in our area pay more. I would leave, but am anxious to be a part of getting this union out of our hospital. Now that most see that this union contract is just a bunch of broken promises, they are ready to vote to go back to speaking for themselves and keeping that $100 a month in dues we are forced to pay whether we want the union or not. I wouldn't want to miss out on that experience. So I'll stay. Money is not everything!

Nancy2,

You make it sound like we didn't do all those things that you hold so high and mighty about yourself. For years and years we wasted so many man hours in those professional practice commitees for nothing. The number of times we brought pt. care issues to our adm and then being told if we are not happy we can leave and work somewhere else. We didn't get here at the very first sign of trouble, we got here after we found out we couldn't work short anymore and are pt were going to feel the brunt of it. YOU ARE NOT HEARING THE CRY OF YOUR FELLOW NURSES. WE ARE HEAR FOR OUR PATIENTS AND WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER. WE NEED TO UNITE, WE WANT TO UNITE AND WE ARE GOING TO UNITE. It doesn't matter under which banner we unite, I am a nurse and I am a Teamster. Don't get this all confused when nurses do things the right way all careers and it never gets better this is what happens. Unions never come to places were people are taken care of and are happy. This was the third time we tried to bring in a union, do you think the hospital had enough time to fix things.

Charles D. Ku[/quote]

Scraper _1077:

You and I see I to eye. I am fed up with the above response that you responding to. I have just one question for all of the martry marys out there, including the response by Nancy 2. I am so glad that her salary requirement were met and she is happy with her benefits. Most of us are not. Tell me, do you make as much as the Physical Therapists that you work with? Or the Pharmacists? or even close to what the doctors make? Hospitals need RN's as much as they need MD's. And Physical Therapists, and Pharmacist. If you remember, way back when, WE USE TO DO THE PHYSICAL THERAPY THAT THE THERAPIST DO KNOW. WE CAN STILL, BY LAW, DO THE JOB OF A THERAPIST. CAN THEY DO OURS?

I am glad that you can "respolve disputes with others in the work environment, But, as we say Brooklyn, that and $.50 will get you on the subway. In othe words, it is meaningless. Have you negotiated the staffing ratios that CNA has? Have you negotiated the guaranteed medical benefits for RNs and their families with no cost to them that the NYSNA has in ALL OF THIER CONTRACTS? Have you personally fought attacks by politicians like Arnie? And won? Probably not. In other words, for all of your contempt for unions, and your unsubstantied claims for having achieved miraculous workplace improvemets by your self, you have really achieved absolutely nothing. You do get Brownie Points and an "A" for effort, but in my opinion, you have delusions of grandeur. You will achieve nothing of any significance by your self, because you, and other nurses, by yourself, have no clout. There is power in numbers. That should be blatantly apparent to you and the others who fight the unions. If you worked with the unions, instead of fighting them, you would have achieved ALL OF THE NEEDED WORKPLACE IMPROVEMENTS THAT ARE STILL BEING FOUGHT FOR. IF NURSES HAD UNIONIZED YEARS AGO, WE WOULD BE IN THE SAME POSITION AS THE TEACHERS ARE. WORKPLACE CONTROL, BENEFITS THAT ATTRACT AND RETAIN NURSES, PENSIONS THAT YOU CAN RETIRE ON, ETC.

The field will not exist in our lifetime because the "powers that be" know what they have to do to continue their control the nursing profession. They also know that "Divide and Conquer", is their mantra. We haven't figured out yet if we should increase our education level to equal what other health care professions have, or remain as blue collar trailer trash in the eyes of the public, and the hospitals. Instead of supporting the individuals who have the desire and leadership skills, you fight us tooth and nail, to the point that we leave in disgust. In case you haven't noticed, the new nurses are leaving in droves. Just read the threads. Few, if any of the new grads are planning on staying in bedside nursing for more than a few years, and they plan on leaving for greener pasteurs. You are contributing to it by not taking definitive action NOW. The hospitals and insurance companies have been planning this for years. They are years light years ahead of us. More so because they are not dealing with individuals like you who fight what needs to be done every step of the way. Do us all a favor. GIVE IT UP!

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
Spokane, Washington

[Nancy2]

You and I see I to eye. I am fed up with the above response that you responding to. I have just one question for all of the martry marys out there, including the response by Nancy 2. I am so glad that her salary requirement were met and she is happy with her benefits. Most of us are not. Tell me, do you make as much as the Physical Therapists that you work with? Or the Pharmacists? or even close to what the doctors make? Hospitals need RN's as much as they need MD's. And Physical Therapists, and Pharmacist. If you remember, way back when, WE USE TO DO THE PHYSICAL THERAPY THAT THE THERAPIST DO KNOW. WE CAN STILL, BY LAW, DO THE JOB OF A THERAPIST. CAN THEY DO OURS?

I am glad that you can "respolve disputes with others in the work environment, But, as we say Brooklyn, that and $.50 will get you on the subway. In othe words, it is meaningless. Have you negotiated the staffing ratios that CNA has? Have you negotiated the guaranteed medical benefits for RNs and their families with no cost to them that the NYSNA has in ALL OF THIER CONTRACTS? Have you personally fought attacks by politicians like Arnie? And won? Probably not. In other words, for all of your contempt for unions, and your unsubstantied claims for having achieved miraculous workplace improvemets by your self, you have really achieved absolutely nothing. You do get Brownie Points and an "A" for effort, but in my opinion, you have delusions of grandeur. You will achieve nothing of any significance by your self, because you, and other nurses, by yourself, have no clout. There is power in numbers. That should be blatantly apparent to you and the others who fight the unions. If you worked with the unions, instead of fighting them, you would have achieved ALL OF THE NEEDED WORKPLACE IMPROVEMENTS THAT ARE STILL BEING FOUGHT FOR. IF NURSES HAD UNIONIZED YEARS AGO, WE WOULD BE IN THE SAME POSITION AS THE TEACHERS ARE. WORKPLACE CONTROL, BENEFITS THAT ATTRACT AND RETAIN NURSES, PENSIONS THAT YOU CAN RETIRE ON, ETC.

The field will not exist in our lifetime because the "powers that be" know what they have to do to continue their control the nursing profession. They also know that "Divide and Conquer", is their mantra. We haven't figured out yet if we should increase our education level to equal what other health care professions have, or remain as blue collar trailer trash in the eyes of the public, and the hospitals. Instead of supporting the individuals who have the desire and leadership skills, you fight us tooth and nail, to the point that we leave in disgust. In case you haven't noticed, the new nurses are leaving in droves. Just read the threads. Few, if any of the new grads are planning on staying in bedside nursing for more than a few years, and they plan on leaving for greener pasteurs. You are contributing to it by not taking definitive action NOW. The hospitals and insurance companies have been planning this for years. They are years light years ahead of us. More so because they are not dealing with individuals like you who fight what needs to be done every step of the way. Do us all a favor. GIVE IT UP!

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
Spokane, Washington

You should see a therapist for your anger.
I have leadership skills and use them. I don't fight, I exercize my judgement. It is you who are fighting. If I were a new grad who worked with a nurse as angry about our profession as you are, I'd leave too! In many hospitals nurses have a voice without unionizing. The hospitals that don't listen probably deserve a union. I just share my experience and opinions. I don't call people "stupid" for not agreeing with me.
By the way...I'll NEVER "GIVE IT UP!"