[Vikingkitten]

Originally Posted by ChayaN

This is assuming that you know the origin of the med and assuming that you know this med might present a religious problem for the patient. But IMO this is a lot of assuming for a nurse to do. If a patient knows s/he might have a religious issue with a med or treatment it's their job to disclose that information and not rely on the nurse's knowlege of halacha or sharia.

As an Orthodox Jew I don't have a problem with an injectible drug. Drugs that are injested are a problem according to some rabbis (for example gelatin capsules) but then the issue depends on the availability of other brands, how critical the patient is, etc. But I wouldn't consider it the nurse's job to tell me "this pill might contain gelatin, do you have a problem with it?" Rather, it would be my job to let the nurse know that I have an issue with gelatin capsules. I wouldn't want a nurse to hold back from giving me a medication I needed based on her faulty knowledge of my religious practices.

OK, I get that we are, these days, more socially aware of our patients religious/cultural backrounds and the implications of them. Being an Army medic, we were always well-trained in the local religion/ culture ....etc. I have to ask; do you ask everyone if they are a vegetarian, as many of our meds and etc. are animal-based. Do you ask if they are native-american, as they have many taboos as other cultures do? What about the Buddhists? Maybe that darker-skinned patient is Hindu............... I think our first duty is to take care of our patient; the rest can come later or if we have the time and it isn't critical. I'll get off my soapbox. "And now, for something completely different"!

[edmia]

Originally Posted by psalm_55

Fotografe wrote: it's called INFORMED CONSENT -- which is required as the result of what the NAZIs did in WWII. This international law was borne of the Nuremburg trials.

administeriing even a placebo -- which is harmless in every way -- requires informed consent.

violating informed consent constitutes criminal negligence. it's a slam dunk! and a fast track to court.

I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous. It is up to the patient to inform the staff if they have a specific dietary concern. We are not expected to know the restrictions and intricacies of every religion out there. We are expected to make every effort to respect these things if we are informed of them.

As a Jewish person, it is up to me to figure out what I want to ingest. There are many different degrees of observance in many religions, so assuming that I won't eat pork because I'm Jewish is just that, assuming. You don't know what my rabbi and I have discussed about medication. You don't know what decisions I may have already made. You assume I'm an ignorant Jewish person that should be told there's pork in a medication? You give me no credit? C'mon.

Informed consent is not for medication administration. Patients agree to a General Treatment Consent for this purpose and it is their job as a consumer to ask questions. I will tell them, this xyz medication was prescribed by your MD for xyz condition. Do you have any questions about the medication? and that's it.

On admission I don't ask what foods you eat. If you're vegan, tell me if you really care. If you don't want blood products, tell me if you really care. Otherwise, I can't read your mind nor would I expect anyone to read my mind. If I'm a patient and something is important to me, like no mercury in a vaccine, I speak out, I ask for what I need, and I make every effort possible to fulfill my personal beliefs. But, it is up to me.

[dilleweed]

I have to say that I found it really funny that while reading this thread, the ad at the bottom of the screen was for 'bacon salt'.

[10MG-IV]

[quote=Furoffire;1657579]Great can of worms
I am a kosher vegetarian and the thought of insulin and heparin out of beef or pork freaks me out Is there an alternative? I find most patients don't have a clue. Kitten[/quote
Oy Vey!
I'm calling Sally Forshcein to ask her her opinon right now,,,,,with all due respect, lets ask a Rabbi.


ASA to the rescue.... what a great marketing tool it could be Kosher approved!
lovonex is porcine too.

[LilgirlRN]

Would I knowingly give someone who is Jehovah's Witness blood products? No. Would I tell a Jewish or Muslim person that the heparin in pork-based? I probably wouldn't have ever thought about it. If it's all about religion I am almost certain that "god" of anykind would rather keep his followers than have them die from a PTE.

[tiggerforhim]

Originally Posted by ChayaN

I still believe that it's the patient's job to disclose their religious views and to ask what's in the drug before they take it, if it's important to them. I don't see how it's an ethical violation for a nurse not to disclose information that she was not told is significant. If the patient noted their religious requirements in their chart and their wishes were not honored, that's an ethical violation. With everything that nurses have to do/remember, I don't expect them to keep my religious preferences in mind unless I explicitly tell them. There are many different customs/rulings/practices even within Judaism or Islam and a nurse can't be expected to keep track of them all. I don't see why you'd want to even go there as a nurse - do you want to be blamed now for inadvertantly causing a patient to violate a religious stricture that they didn't inform you of? As a protection for you, the standard should be that the onus is on the patient to inform the healthcare provider of their religious needs.

Look, in an emergency, with everything else we have to do/remember, if the patient does not tell me about, I'm not going to worry about it. Even if it's not an emergency, I'm probably not going to make it my priority, especially if there's nothing to indicate. If you decide to keep your mouth shut, don't blame me afterwards. If I knowthe patient is Jewish/Muslim, that's a different story. Also, like a lot of posters I've read here, I didn't know about the porcine source for heparin, so, again, with everything else expected of us, I don't have time to look up the origins of my meds. Just my 0.02, bluntly.