[canoehead]

Just to relieve everyone from the debate about insulin, at least, here's a link that says most animal insulins are now not being manufactured.

http://www.wtvt.com/investreptr/humulin.html

Again, the new insulin is synthetic. But Ford says the only insulin that successfully allows her to manage her blood sugar levels is the old fashioned kind--the kind that comes from animals. She stashes a supply of it away in a refrigerator because Eli Lilly and Company, the only American company producing insulin, stopped making the beef and beef/pork insulin she's used for 30 years. It still makes the pork insulin, but that doesn't work well for Ford either.

[caroladybelle]

Originally Posted by ChayaN

Well, I don't know exactly what your friend had in mind, but in Judaism, there are three "major" commandments which you may not violate to save your life: Idol-worship, murder and adultery. All other commandments are considered minor in this respect. This means that if you need to eat/ingest something non-kosher to save your life, you may do so, if the kosher substitute is not easily available.

Perhaps the nonJews are not aware, but there are several hundred laws/rules governing Jewish behavior and propriety (isn't it 632?) While they are rules, they are not necessarily absolutely unbreakable, in matters of life and health.

G-d prefers us to use a certain amount of judgement, and accepts that variations may be necessary at times.

In Christianity (catholicism), there are categories of sin, Venal and Mortal. One is much more abhorant and less "forgiveable" than the other.
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The issue of use of porcine derived heparin, falls under rabbinical decisions made previously, notably regarding porcine insulin and porcine heart valves. Both were considered acceptable, as that the initial substitutes were found to be problematic or not of appropriate quality. And given that even Humulin insulin contained some minor porcine components in production for a while, it would be difficult for diabetic Jew to survive without having some porcine content.

This issue has risen its ugly head in the form of genetic manipulation. Major producers of grain and of vegetables have been manipulating growth/production by inserting genetic material fromother sources, including animal sources. That means even your "vegetarian" diet may be corrupted by use of animal DNA in its' production.

If you eat at Taco Bell or some other fast food chains, some of what you are eating is probably genetically modified. But I doubt if you will see this listed on the menu anywhere.

Many Jews are choosing organic produce, to avoid genetically modified products as a matter of conscience. We believe that it is unnecessary, falls into the prohibition of "mixing" materials that should not be mixed. But rabbis have determined that this manipulation is acceptable in many cases.

So just because my religion permits something, does not necessarily mean that it is what I will do.

But if I have a problem with a med, it is MY job to let you know what is or is not acceptable to me, in regards to religious prohibitions. I do not expect the nurse to keep up with the vagaries of my religion, or for that matter, even keep track of what my religion is. I merely ask him/her to treat my religious beliefs with respect as I would treat his/hers.

[Kimbalou]

Originally Posted by dspring

I was just at a seminar a couple of weeks ago, and the person at one of the lectures commented that they are no longer make a heparin from beef, and it is all pork heparin. This triggered something in my mind, and mad me think if this is the case, can you actually give Heparin to someone of the Jewish, of Muslim faith. Since both faiths from what I understand forbid the use of pork. One nurse I used to work with had told me in the past if I ever come in as a patient you have to use the beef based Heparin. The more I have thought about this the more it really bothers me. I want to here your opinions.
D

Seventh-Day Adventists also do not eat pork. Patients have the right to know...

[KeithEMU]

Many foods that you buy are marked with one of several symbols for Kosher if they have been verified as such. Is the next step to have meds marked as well? Not saying it would be a bad thing at all. It would make the meds easier to know what requires no deliberation, and what may need to be thought about. Could mark some meds as vegan as well. I would guess it has never been done because the drug companies don't think it worth the cost.

[ChayaN]

Actually, a lot of meds have been checked out for Kosher purposes. There are a few rules at play here: One, Jewish law is not as strict when there's danger to life. Two, if the amount of non-kosher substance is very minute it could be nullified. Three, medication is generally not considered as food. Injection is even less of a problem than taking a pill. People are stricter around Passover time for various reasons, and there are books out that tell you which medications have grain products in them.

I don't think having meds kosher certified is the best idea (although many vitamins and OTCs already are.) The reason being that it will just add another complication in the way of getting needed medication to a sick person. Some people have O-C tendencies when it comes to religious observance and I see no reason to feed it. Me, being slightly neurotic, checked before taking a GTT if the soda was OK to drink - I was told that orange and cherry flavors are ok. But the only reason I asked was because I was drinking something and it wasn't a med.

[caroladybelle]

Originally Posted by KeithEMU

Many foods that you buy are marked with one of several symbols for Kosher if they have been verified as such. Is the next step to have meds marked as well? Not saying it would be a bad thing at all. It would make the meds easier to know what requires no deliberation, and what may need to be thought about.

To mark something as officially "kosher", requires assistance of a Rabbinical group to oversee production of the product and verify that it is kosher by rabbinical standard, not merely providing a list of ingrediants. This is expensive, and might be seen as highly unnecessary as such groups already permit this use of drugs w/porcine or nonkosher ingrediants, as medicine is a matter of life and health.

And if one were to push the matter of "kosher" vs. nonkosher, remember that there is "kosher for Passover" vs. merely "kosher". And one could get into the use of alcohol containing products vs. nonalcohol containing products, etc. Some medical products involve use of yeast in production...they would be banned during Passover.

Until recently, while most colas were kosher, they were not kosher for Passover. However, some companies have made the effort to mark some "kosher for Passover", by using different ingrediants (different sweetener/syrup)...they sell the altered product in markets where there is a large observant Jewish population. I think that it was Coke Cola, but am not sure.

As such most rabbinical groups have opted to exclude most meds from "kosher" regulations. This eliminates a lot of potential debate and regulatory issues.

[azhiker96]

The new synthetic insulin is actually produced by modified E. Coli.
http://www.littletree.com.au/dna.htm

Would this be objectionable to vegans?

[yvonnemuse]

I have found this thread to be quite interesting and previously knew nothing about the origins of heparin.If I knew a patient was vigilant about their religious observations I would most likely ask for a pharmacy consult (as well as the ususal dietary one)

[Angie O'Plasty, RN]

I also agree that it does have to be up to the patient to inform. I have no idea how most vegans or those with certain religious dietary restrictions would feel about their med being derived from eggs or mare's urine, for instance.

But this has been a very interesting and informative thread for me, too. I never really gave it a thought before, even though our area is very diverse because of tourism.

[wooh]

The one time I was hospitalized, I was asked my religious affiliation. Ditto for my Mom, husband and son.

On admits I always ask along the lines of, "Do you have any ethical, religious or cultural beliefs or practices that would affect your care or your diet in any way?"
That gives them a chance to spell out to me what those beliefs are, not just, "I'm Baptist/Muslim/Pentecostal/Hindu/Jewish/Vegan/Guatamalen/Canadian" or whatever ethical/religious/cultural system they're a part of.
I'm of the opinion that they need to tell me specifically. Being vegan, I'll tell you specifically what I'll allow on my dinner tray and what meds I've decided I will or won't take. And I spell it out, because I know when I say no meat or animal products, they're going to say, "Well tonight is fish sticks, so you'll be ok" and I'll have to correct them. But it's up to ME to make sure my convictions are respected, not anybody else. If your culture doesn't allow orange flavoring in liquid meds on Thursdays (but orange juice is ok), don't expect me to know that just because you told me your from Ontario. Tell me you won't take orange flavoring in liquid meds on Thursdays and I'll do what I have to do to get you cherry flavor.