[iceyspots]

Does your hospital have a SANE Nurse available?

[kriseh]

Originally Posted by GilaRN

I stand by my statement. Your situation may have been different; however, many of the abused people I have seen deny any problems and go as far as to place blame on themselves for the abuse Most refuse to press charges and will actually defend the actions of the abuser.

Where in my post did I pass judgement? You need to understand that many people become very frustrated and simply cannot understand why abused people do not extricate themselves from the situation. Even more frustration stems from the fact that many of these abused people will go to great lengths to protect the abuser and condone the abuser's actions. However, if people could realize that many abused people have developed a very different way of thinking and a different behavior, then we could move beyond the frustration and begin to develop a plan that may actually help. Realizing that this type of thinking exists and understanding the thought process is actually a good way to define empathy IMHO, and the first step in developing an effective plan that can help these people.

You passed judgement when you said they are "not normal" and don't think and feel like us. Have you ever known somebody, really known, not just read or heard about, in this situation. Have you got to talk with them? I think the situation you're describing is the exception to the norm, not the norm. We're not going to be able to help these ladies if we think they are uncapable of feeling and thinking like we do and if we don't understand there issues and their fears.

Stand by your statement if you'd like- it's still too generalized and most often than not- WRONG!

[GilaRN]

Originally Posted by gr8rnpjt

I resent this type of thinking and I hope you do not work in a capacity that puts you in the vicinity of abuse victims. These women are more normal than you think. They are our neighbors, our daughters, our sisters, and our mothers. This kind of thinking is just the type of behavior that keeps victims down and perpetuates the abuse.

Please read my second post in this thread. Why do you resent my thinking? I am simply trying to understand how how people think. These "people," because more than just women are abused, are not abnormal in that they are psychotic or deserve this kind of treatment. However, they have developed very different ways of thinking and patterns of behavior. In fact, I dare say it can happen to any one of us given specific circumstances.

A documented example of the behavior and thinking in question would be Stockholm syndrome. This syndrome is used to describe the behavior of people who have been abused or overpowered. It is not isolated to hostages. In many ways, domestic abuse is much like a hostage crisis, so, I can understand the similar types of behavior.

I fail to see why you think I am a bad health care provider because I have these thoughts. I dare say you read my post and simply responded half cocked and out of emotion without actually attempting to understand my stance. If you think that people who are abused are not special and do not require special care and attention to understanding the way they think, then you are entitled to this way of thinking; however, I must respectfully disagree.

[GilaRN]

Originally Posted by kriseh

You passed judgement when you said they are "not normal" and don't think and feel like us. Have you ever known somebody, really known, not just read or heard about, in this situation. Have you got to talk with them? I think the situation you're describing is the exception to the norm, not the norm. We're not going to be able to help these ladies if we think they are uncapable of feeling and thinking like we do and if we don't understand there issues and their fears.

Stand by your statement if you'd like- it's still too generalized and most often than not- WRONG!

I would agree that feel is much too generalized of a word to describe my thoughts. These people are most likely terrified, confused, and depressed. All feelings we experience; however, the behavior we often see is different from what many of us would consider normal.

Do a simple Google search, and you will see that the behavior in question is well known and quite common. We need to understand this behavior and develop special interventions with this in mind. We need to help these people break the cycle of protecting the abuser and take steps to get out ofthis situation. However, we cannot simply say, "hey stupid he/she is going to kill you one of these days, so get out."

I think we are on the same side when it comes to this issue. It seems that we are arguing over semantics.

[gr8rnpjt]

Originally Posted by GilaRN

It is pretty hard. However, do not look at these people as "normal." Anybody who allows somebody to smack them around time after time has complex phychosocial issues. Many of these people do not think or feel like us, and changing beliefs and behaviors that are so ingrained can be nearly impossibe. Much like attempting to convert a christian to islam or visa versa. Some of these behaviors are as deeply rooted as any religious belief.

I "respectfully" disagree with anyone who would say "do not look at these people as 'normal', and "many of these people do not think or feel like us, and changing beliefs and behaviors that are so ingrained can be nearly impossible, much like attempting to convert a christian to islam or vice versa."

what was ingrained in my behavior was the fact that if I fought back I was hit over the head with a cupboard door, and if I called him names back I went to work with the knowledge that my abuser may leave town with my son and I may never see him again. My beliefs were what sustained me and I certainly would have found it much easier to convert to any religion that I felt would get me out of the hell on earth that I found myself living in.

I did not say you were a bad nurse I just hope that you don't have to interact with many of "those people" as this type of thinking does not do the victim any good. I am sure you are a fine nurse if you only have to work with "normal" people who are not dealing with "complex psychosocial issues" such as being jacked up against the wall and pushed around for burning the toast.

[kriseh]

GilaRN-

You still didn't answer the question if you actually knew anyone with this issue, you started talking about googling it. I don't need to google- I've been there, I know others that have.

I don't want to seem like I'm argueing with you, but you just don't know what it's like- I'd never want you to and I'm sure you never will, but listen to those who are able to share their experiences with you and tell what "those people" really feel and think and deal with.

[GilaRN]

Originally Posted by kriseh

GilaRN-

You still didn't answer the question if you actually knew anyone with this issue, you started talking about googling it. I don't need to google- I've been there, I know others that have.

I don't want to seem like I'm argueing with you, but you just don't know what it's like- I'd never want you to and I'm sure you never will, but listen to those who are able to share their experiences with you and tell what "those people" really feel and think and deal with.

I hope that you can appreciate the fact that other people may not respond to or experience a situation in the same way that you did. This behavior is documented among many abuse victims and should not be ignored. Other than that, we will agree to disagree.

As far as answering your question about me being an abuse victim or personally knowing an abuse victim; you will not get an answer from me on that topic. It is simply a personal matter and I will not discuss it on a public forum.

[crb613]

Originally Posted by gr8rnpjt

Chances are, when times were relatively good between them, she told him everything you did wrong to her in her life, and he has a running dialogue that comes out in a tidal wave before and after she goes to see you. Whether you know it or not, her life was not as perfect as you saw it. I am sorry to be blunt and hurtful, but there are always two sides to every story Yours may be more correct, but hers is the only one that counts in this situation. If he is not welcome in your house, you can be sure he reminded her of everything that you do that makes her mad. And she went home to him and the first thing he asked is what happened and she told him everything you did that she disagreed with. She told because it guaranteed her a warm welcome home, and it reinforced to him that he has the upper hand. He will catalogue everything in his memory bank and use it against you the next time you try to interfere when they are fighting. He will remind her of your shortcomings and that he is always there when she comes back from a visit with you to comfort her for a day or two. Then two days later is buisiness as usual and he doesn't care because he won that battle. She is getting what she wants, he is getting what he wants. I understand your frustration more than you know. But that is the dance, and they both know it so well...

I see from your earlier post you speak from experience. I think you are prob ally right on about how she acts when she goes back. The only thing I know for sure is that she was raised with love & in a loving home. Perfect? No and I never meant to imply it was. When they were first married I did every thing in my power to love & make him feel a part of our family....until she told me about the first shove when she was pregnant. I had no way of knowing what went on in her home since she lives so far away. She came to me for help and what I tried to do was what she asked...a way to leave. This has gotten progressively worse....the last time he tried to kill her and told her he would sooner or later. She told us he would choke her until she almost passed out then stop & start again.
The police were involved once again charges pressed/restraining orders the whole nine yards. While he was in jail she called me & said " mom I want to come home." They had been gong to a councilor & she advised my daughter to leave...their councilor told her that she had a hard time giving up on a couple, but she was in danger, and she believed it was not going to change. Once again I did not tell her to leave....she called me. All I did was what she asked....I provided the way out. I also told her do not leave if you plan to go back.....enough is enough & you need to decided how you want your life to be. She wanted to come home and she did. She continued to talk to their councilor via phone, and she continued to urge her to stay away where she was safe. She stayed for about a month and went back.....and yes he would call & she would talk to him! I did not hide
my feelings and told her if she went back.....do not call me again. I cannot live my life in constant turmoil and I refuse to let him control it ....and if she chose to go back and let him kill her, I would just have to bury her because I had done all I could. I also told her if she went back this time he would know for sure that he could do anything her wanted to her. This is her second marriage and the first was bad enough, but this is as bad as it gets and I know if she does not leave he will kill her. I have not talked
to her since she left.about 3 months ago. Do I detest him.....you have no idea and I have up to this point kept my husband & son from paying him a visit.....maybe that would not be such a bad idea after all! Thanks for your very honest input.

[gr8rnpjt]

[quote=you have no idea and I have up to this point kept my husband & son from paying him a visit.....maybe that would not be such a bad idea after all! Thanks for your very honest input.[/QUOTE]

crb613-My heart goes out to you. I am so sorry that you are living this way. Some women never get out, but if she has any children it may make her see what a monster she is living with.
My mother had to watch me go back time and time again, she didn't understand why but for me there wasn't much of a choice. I was being threatened and coerced into staying and my children were the one's who ultimately gave me the wake up call.
The one thing my mom did was kept lines of communication and let me know she was there for me when I was ready to get away. I know the inner turmoil you are having and your attempt at self preservation is a natural course to take for your own sanity
But please make it clear to your daughter that you will always be there for her when she needs to get away. Because cutting ties with her will only perpetuate the feeling that she is alone in all this and is "stuck" where she is. I bet if you called her today or sent her a card just telling her you love her and will always be there for her, it would make her day.
Because she really feels she had no choice to go back. The abuser is the master manipulator and will do and say anything to get her back under his thumb.
She really needs to hear and know that you are still there.
My mother insisted on calling me every couple of weeks when things were bad and force me to go to lunch with her. No excuses, she would say, I want to see you and the kids and I won't take no for an answer.
She would only bring up the relationship if I did. If not,we didn't speak of him. Then when I went home and got the 3rd degree I could say honestly no, we did not talk about you at all.
Another thing she did was sent cards and little notes all the time. The notes would be accompanied by magazine articles regarding domestic violence or controlling men, and she was very bold about it. She didn't care if he knew she sent them. One time she sent me her old IMAC computer, and in the pages of the literature, she had placed little notes and articles she wanted me to read. You need to make your presence known. He needs to know you are not going anywhere and let her know that you are always there for her. Best of luck and prayers. I will be thinking of you.

[crb613]

gr8rnpjt
Thank you once again. When I read what you wrote it makes so much sense. I guess I was trying the tough love path....hoping against hope she would choose her family, children , & safety over him.....I am just so tired. It seems I have protected her all her life & I thought if she had to figure it out without my help......maybe just maybe she would say out. Her children cried & begged her not to go back, talk about heartbreaking. I would have never thought that there would come a time that I could not reach her. We have always been so close, but she has changed. I feel like I have let my grandchildren down and I am so hurt at her for keeping those kids in this mess. When I think about him hitting, shoving, choking, kicking her I am filled with a rage that I never knew existed....it is scary the thoughts that can cross your mind.........I just pray she leaves before its too late.
I will take your advice since you have been where she is now, although I cannot understand it....I will always be her mother and I will always love her unconditionally. Thank you & please keep us in your prayers.