[stanman1968]

Dude just "injecting" is what a large argument is about. What do you think most treatments are? Spinal cord stimulator, pain pumps? Yeah they are there but that is not the bread and butter of a pain practice it is just those basic "injections"
According to you they are pretty basic so obviously a highly trained and skilled practitioner such as myself is in a much better position to judge my competency and my peer groups competency over an untrained uncertainly trained individual as yourself, hey all you can do is type.

[jwk]

Originally Posted by wtbcrna

ASA is a political organization first and foremost meant to protect MDA monopolies.

Remember - you can freely subsitute AANA for ASA in the sentence above and still be 100% accurate.

[stanman1968]

yeah well JWK if the AA were not such an open play to create a more dependent midlevel to replace the CRNA it would not be an issue. Note more Dependent by law not by ability IMO. I think the AANA should find a way grandfather in AA's so that they to may have independent practice.

[wtbcrna]

Originally Posted by jwk

Remember - you can freely subsitute AANA for ASA in the sentence above and still be 100% accurate.

I don't disagree with you that the AANA is out to protect CRNA professional interests at all, but CRNAs are far from having monopoly on anesthesia services.
AAs are another issue all together in the grand scheme of things. You should start another thread if you want to discuss AAs/ASA and AANA. This thread is getting too long as is.

[wtbcrna]

Originally Posted by paindoc

Actually I said INTERVENTIONAL pain procedures are not being taught in CRNA school. If you had fluoroscopically guided injection training in CRNA school, pray tell us where so I can contact the school for verification. As for CRNA= 3 years to 8 years of training, that is a fact. The AANA gives the same level of certification to a 2 year certificate RN plus one year CRNA school without masters degrees (which by the way according to the AANA website was not fully implemented until less than 10 years ago so it is difficult to see how you think all these nurses that obtained non-MS degrees are near retirement) as it does to nurses well trained in OR and OB anesthesia with DNP degrees. No other professional certification organization has such a wide lattitude in the meaning of "certified". Nonetheless, even DNP nurses are not trained in the management of chronic pain. If you think a couple of hours of training in non injection chronic pain management qualifies you to treat comprehensive pain management, then heaven help those patients that would naively enter your realm.

I went and looked at your old posts and still didn't see the one where it said interventional pain management, but I will take your word for it. This thread is getting long. Anyways in being fair, in general at my school we are not taught fluroscopically guided injection training as far as I know...we have discussed it a little bit, but I am pretty sure it plays no major part of our training.
Nurse anesthesia students are not like med students the average age of most students starting NA is generally around their mid-30's, no matter what the minimum requirements are, most NA students don't get into school with just 1yr critical care expeirence. So giving the fact that it has been 10 yrs since the requirement for a Masters took place and most schools switched over years before the requirement for Masters became effective (just like some NA schools are switching over to DNP now 15+yrs ahead of time) that makes most diploma CRNA in their 50's+ which is consistent with the ones that I have met. I am sure that there is probably some diploma grads out there that our in their 40's but they are far from the majority.
Again you have absolutely no proof that the only training CRNAs doing chronic have is a weekend course, but I guess as long as it sounds good to you you will continue to say it...over and over and over again.
Since, I don't ever plan on practicing any kind of chronic pain management I think you are pretty safe, but I would much rather be treated by a CRNA doing interventional pain management that learned their skills through OJT and "weekend courses" than egotisical physician that thinks their diploma has made them a omnipotent deity with no limits on their scope of practice.

[n_g]

Originally Posted by deepz

A hands-on cadaver course open to all physicians and CRNAs of all skill levels that want to learn pain management from assessments to image guided interventional techniques. Three day course will include both didactic and hands-on including a physical assessment lab and extensive hands-on cadaver training using fluorscopy.

MAY 2-4
Doubletree Chicago-Arlington Heights
19 CEUS pending AANA approval

http://www.napeseminars.com/pages/seminars.html

Exhibit A: typical weekend course

I'm waiting for wtbcrna to post info about accredited and recognized programs that comprehehsively trains CRNA's to do pain that would make them equivalent to pain docs. He seems convinced that such programs exist so I'm waiting for the evidence.

I'm waiting...

[deepz]

Originally Posted by n_g

....I'm waiting...

You apparently can't admit you are wrong, ng, despite being shown in plain English that the LA SUPREME Ct did NOT as you claim find pain to be strictly a physician function (District Ct, one judge, remember?), so why should anyone here care if you wait and wait till the cows come home.

And your qualifications again?

[wtbcrna]

Originally Posted by n_g

Exhibit A: typical weekend course

I'm waiting for wtbcrna to post info about accredited and recognized programs that comprehehsively trains CRNA's to do pain that would make them equivalent to pain docs. He seems convinced that such programs exist so I'm waiting for the evidence.

I'm waiting...

Actually, I like to stick with truth and state when something is my opinion. Now if you through being an SDN spokesperson, why don't you quit posting or tell us your background! That is the only pertinent thing left undiscussed on this thread.

So, if it is a weekend course and a physician goes to it...That has to mean that it is the physician's only interventional pain training by yours and Paindoc's logic.

I'm waiting along with everyone else..... for your credentials.

[NRSKarenRN]

<H1>da Vinci® System Training

da Vinci System training is comprised of two parts:
(1) On-Site da Vinci Surgical System Training

Surgeons and support staff attend a half-day training session at their hospital. This program consists of didactic and practical skills sessions covering the components and proper use of the da Vinci Surgical System and EndoWrist® Instruments. On-site training highlights key da Vinci System features, System preparation and management, and includes a hands-on practicum for both surgeons and nurses.

(2) Off-Site da Vinci Surgical Skills Training*

One surgeon and his/her surgical assistant learn and practice procedural skills using the da Vinci Surgical System at one of our premier regional training centers. Offsite da Vinci System Training is a one- or two-day program combining didactic sessions and a structured, hands-on laboratory session. The curriculum emphasizes surgical team roles and responsibilities, as well as emergent techniques for optimizing robotic-assisted minimally invasive surgery.

Gee, if doctors can do robotic surgery with just 1/2 day to 2day max course, guess WE immersion course in pain mgmt for 19 hours is more than sufficient.

As with many nurses, people develop specific interest in a specific subject area that intrigies them. They purchase + read books about subject, read professional journal articles, take CE program or 2, pepper experts they work with regarding specific subject then decide to take indepth education program to strengthen and expand interest area, return to work setting performing advanced skills under another professional for first time.

It's not just taking solo course.... unless were talking robotic surgery.

[n_g]

Originally Posted by NRSKarenRN

Gee, if doctors can do robotic surgery with just 1/2 day to 2day max course, guess WE immersion course in pain mgmt for 19 hours is more than sufficient.

Robotic surgery is in its infancy. It's very experimental and we don't know which types of surgeries are best suited for it. Maybe in 10 years, it will prove to be an established tool. At that point, the best practices will established and anybody who wants to do it has to be certified to do it. Laproscopic surgery or any new field has to go through this evolution to become a mature field. Once a mature field, best practices for safe practice and minimal level of competence are established. Pain is such a mature field. Being certified in that field means you meet those competency levels. Why do we bother getting degrees like the CRNA? Why not just pick someone off the street and teach them how to deliver anesthesia in a few weeks?