[deepz]

Originally Posted by Mana_Tangata

.......frankly I'm not up for taking the brunt of the backlash.

Please don't take the harsh remarks about Aspect Medical, etc, etc, as directed at you personally. If you have not yet had counseling to help deal with your aftermath of this episode, as has been previously advised, you truly should, IMHO. Now that we know who you are and why you are here, could you perhaps go on to help us to better understand the nature of your recall?

Could you give us -- in-depth, with as much specific detail as possible -- a description of what you experienced while under general anesthesia?

TIA

deepz

[jwk]

Originally Posted by DutchgirlRN

WHAT IS ANESTHESIA AWARENESS?


Anesthesia Awareness, or intra-operative awareness, is perhaps the most helpless and terrifying feeling in the world...............

No offense DutchGirl, but cutting and pasting this piece from Carol Wieher's website will not earn you any points here. Do you think we haven't seen it before? It adds nothing to the discussion, just fans the flames.

And do you really think that everyone in this section of the board isn't aware of monitors that claim to prevent awareness under anesthesia? And no offense to Centennial Medical Center - I know nothing about them, but that really sounds like a marketing claim, pure and simple. (Perhaps you work there?)

There are several different manufacturers making these types of monitors, and to date, NONE OF THEM have been shown to reliably predict awareness under anesthesia. Again, you're just fanning the flames.

[jwk]

Originally Posted by Mana_Tangata

Wow, I've obviously hit a nerve here and offended a lot of people. I am so sorry. As far as intentionally misleading people about who I am, you are right, I did not let you know my position up front, but I did not lie about it either.

The increadible emotional response I get from people is part of the reason I hide what happended to me. They are either horrified, don't believe me, want to kill my anesthesiologist....I've just stopped telling people. I'm so sorry.

As far as not knowing what all of you go through and the stress that you are under to do a good job, you are right I will never really understand it. In looking in to what happended to me, however, I do have a new appreciation for how hard your job is. But I do have a huge amount of anger towards MY anesthesiologist. I think that he was very sloppy. I think that 99.99% of people in the profession are not.

I really don't know whether to post here anymore or not. It was so nice to find a safe forum to discuss my experience, but I'm really don't want to **** people off. Also, frankly I'm not up for taking the brunt of the backlash.

Mana - You may have hit a nerve (unintentionally) but I don't think you've offended anyone.

Obviously there was a problem. The cause is unknown. It's obvious that you have contacted someone at the hospital since you have a copy of your records and have mentioned risk management in your postings. Has anyone, either through the anesthesiologist or their group, or the hospital, offered to help you with the after-affects you are or may experience? If not, they should be. Refer them to the JCAHO Sentinel Alert on Awareness in Anesthesia published in October, 2004. They should know what this is, and if they are not using this as a guideline in their dealings with you, I'm surprised.

Please understand that anesthesia professionals are acutely aware of this issue at the present time. We are asked questions every day about this because of intense media coverage, including an oft-repeated program on the Discovery Channel. If there is a monitor out there that can be shown to reliably measure awareness under anesthesia, we would all love it. There is no such monitor at the present time.

The strong reactions you'll get from some is simply because we have been inundated on this issue for the last couple of years. Sensational news stories and media events, often sponsored by manufacturers of awareness monitors, makes this a difficult issue to deal with. Websites such as the one DutchGirl cut and pasted a section from don't help either. The woman who sponsors this particular website now offers her story in person, for a price, and wants to use her experience, again for a price, and call herself a "consultant" on anesthesia awareness. These are all blatant conflicts of interest. These companies and individuals have a profit-motive.

We want to make sure that whatever system is used to prevent awareness under anesthesia actually works. If it doesn't work, why use it?

[Mana_Tangata]

Originally Posted by jwk

No offense DutchGirl, but cutting and pasting this piece from Carol Wieher's website will not earn you any points here. Do you think we haven't seen it before? It adds nothing to the discussion, just fans the flames.

And do you really think that everyone in this section of the board isn't aware of monitors that claim to prevent awareness under anesthesia? And no offense to Centennial Medical Center - I know nothing about them, but that really sounds like a marketing claim, pure and simple. (Perhaps you work there?)

There are several different manufacturers making these types of monitors, and to date, NONE OF THEM have been shown to reliably predict awareness under anesthesia. Again, you're just fanning the flames.

Hi,

I'm sorry if this is not the place, but I think that my experience has a lot to be learned from. There seems to be a war going on around anesthesia awareness, and I feel I have been caught in the middle. Common sense seems to have been lost. Do I think that I was given negligent care, or that a monitor would have prevented what happened? I don't know. Do I think that if my experience did not initiate such a defensive and denial reaction I would be in such bad shape? I don't think so. I was cut lose without any couseling, completely unprepared for the psychological consequenses. If I had experienced some kind of complication that did not elicit such a defensive reaction, I think that I would have been given the care I needed.

It seems to me that anesthesia awareness has been touted as being equivalent to inadequate care. I do not agree with this, and think that that type of thinking is detrimental to patient care. I have two friends who also experienced this, both trauma cases. Do I think that they received substandard care? No. I don't think in either case the anesthesia providor knew about the awareness. This was a good ten years ago, so before all the press.

I feel like a nail that has stood up and gotten very hammered down. Earlier I posted that i did not know if I would continue to speak up. But you know what, I exist. It seems to me that there are might be some people on this board who would want learn something from me.

[DutchgirlRN]

Originally Posted by jwk

No offense DutchGirl, but cutting and pasting this piece from Carol Wieher's website will not earn you any points here. Do you think we haven't seen it before? It adds nothing to the discussion, just fans the flames.

And do you really think that everyone in this section of the board isn't aware of monitors that claim to prevent awareness under anesthesia? And no offense to Centennial Medical Center - I know nothing about them, but that really sounds like a marketing claim, pure and simple. (Perhaps you work there?)

There are several different manufacturers making these types of monitors, and to date, NONE OF THEM have been shown to reliably predict awareness under anesthesia. Again, you're just fanning the flames.

Well Good Morning to you too and who ****** in your corn flakes this morning??? I was telling the members (not just you) what I had heard on the news and no I don't work at Centennial for whatever difference that makes. So what if I post some info from a website? Who in the hell is Carol Wieher anyway? I was just looking for some helpful information because I wanted to know more about Anesthesia awareness myself. What kind of points am I supposed to be earning? I don't need acceptance on this site, I already have it. What flames am I supposedly fanning? I'm not looking for trouble, never do. And yes I do take offense at your post. Totally uncalled for. Must have hit a nerve on you somewhere. Don't take that out on me. Get a life !

[DutchgirlRN]

I really don't know whether to post here anymore or not. It was so nice to find a safe forum to discuss my experience, but I'm really don't want to **** people off. Also, frankly I'm not up for taking the brunt of the backlash.

Mana Tangata, Please don't stop posting. You did nothing wrong. You have every right to be anonymous and yet you came forward with the truth. You can't please everyone. There are many regulars to this post who side with you. You did nothing wrong. You had a very bad experience and unfortunately for whatever reason... it does happen, you're not the first and won't be the last. I never read that you were bringing out the big guns and hunting for reasons to slam CRNA's or sue a CRNA. You just wanted some answers (and who wouldn't), needed to vent and needed some unprejuidiced compassion. I tried to help by providing some additional info about this condition and if you'll read the post I got slammed by some rude member who obviously feels guilty about something or just has a nasty attitude. Don't let the bastards get you down. We're a great group and always here for you, you just have to pull the weeds as you go along. God Bless

[loisane]

Originally Posted by Mana_Tangata

I was cut lose without any couseling, completely unprepared for the psychological consequenses. .

Mana, anesthesia professionals are sometimes accountable for awareness and sometimes not. That is because sometimes it is due to negligence and bad practice, but many times it occurs when there is no negligence, and nothing wrong with the practice of anesthesia given. It is frustrating for the victim, because there may be nobody to "blame", and it is only human nature to want there to be an identifiable reason that this happened.

However, we are ALWAYS accountable for our reaction to the patient after such an event has occured. I am sorry you did not get the after care you required. As jwk stated, there are procedures we all know about, that should be followed in every case.

Originally Posted by Mana_Tangata

I have two friends who also experienced this, both trauma cases. Do I think that they received substandard care? No. I don't think in either case the anesthesia providor knew about the awareness. This was a good ten years ago, so before all the press.

This is a new issue to the public. It is NOT a new issue to those of us who do this for a living. I only mention this, because I think there is the perception among the public that if they don't spread the word, the anesthesia community will remain unaware.

Awareness has been studied for decades. One of the things that is well known from these studies is that patients in particular situations are at an increased risk for awareness. Trauma is one of those at risk populations. It has to do with the way our drugs work. In trauma there is often so much blood loss, that the addition of our usual anesthesia drugs is not safe for the patient. In order to save a patient's life, we may have to risk awareness. I think most people would understand that trade off, once it is explained to them.

loisane crna

[Mana_Tangata]

Originally Posted by loisane

Mana, anesthesia professionals are sometimes accountable for awareness and sometimes not. That is because sometimes it is due to negligence and bad practice, but many times it occurs when there is no negligence, and nothing wrong with the practice of anesthesia given. It is frustrating for the victim, because there may be nobody to "blame", and it is only human nature to want there to be an identifiable reason that this happened.

However, we are ALWAYS accountable for our reaction to the patient after such an event has occured. I am sorry you did not get the after care you required. As jwk stated, there are procedures we all know about, that should be followed in every case.



This is a new issue to the public. It is NOT a new issue to those of us who do this for a living. I only mention this, because I think there is the perception among the public that if they don't spread the word, the anesthesia community will remain unaware.

Awareness has been studied for decades. One of the things that is well known from these studies is that patients in particular situations are at an increased risk for awareness. Trauma is one of those at risk populations. It has to do with the way our drugs work. In trauma there is often so much blood loss, that the addition of our usual anesthesia drugs is not safe for the patient. In order to save a patient's life, we may have to risk awareness. I think most people would understand that trade off, once it is explained to them.

loisane crna

I don't think that the anesthesia community is unaware - I agree with you that the exact opposite is the case and you have been barraged with the topic. As far as other folks in the medical profession, and getting policies in place, I'm not so sure. I think that the reason I did not get the after care recommended by JCAHO is because the hospital did not have any policies to deal with me. While I am very angry at the anesthesiologist regarding my aftercare, I have to acknowlege that the experience was probably very traumatic for him as well, and he may not have been thinking clearly. (we are all human) If the hospital had some kind of policy it would have helped both him and me.

[jwk]

Originally Posted by DutchgirlRN

Well Good Morning to you too and who ****** in your corn flakes this morning??? I was telling the members (not just you) what I had heard on the news and no I don't work at Centennial for whatever difference that makes. So what if I post some info from a website? Who in the hell is Carol Wieher anyway? I was just looking for some helpful information because I wanted to know more about Anesthesia awareness myself. What kind of points am I supposed to be earning? I don't need acceptance on this site, I already have it. What flames am I supposedly fanning? I'm not looking for trouble, never do. And yes I do take offense at your post. Totally uncalled for. Must have hit a nerve on you somewhere. Don't take that out on me. Get a life !

Carol Weihrer (spelled correctly now) makes a living off her story about anesthesia awareness. The piece you cut and pasted into your post was verbatim from her website, whether you know it or not. Anesthesia professionals everywhere have heard her story - we're just not interested in hearing it again. And because she profits from all this, her credibility is shot.

No offense was intended, certainly not to cause the response that you made. You're posting in an anesthesia section. We're aware of the problem. Whether you want to admit it or not, your posts do, in fact, fan the flames of an extremely controversial topic, particularly between professionals who actually have knowledge of the problem, and monitor manufacturers and the media, who seem to enjoy a sensational story from which both will profit.

You say you want to know more. Do a search on this forum for anesthesia awareness or BIS. You'll see it discussed ad nauseum, and you'll see the strong opinions that most of us hold regarding this topic.

[jwk]

Originally Posted by Mana_Tangata

I think that the reason I did not get the after care recommended by JCAHO is because the hospital did not have any policies to deal with me. While I am very angry at the anesthesiologist regarding my aftercare, I have to acknowlege that the experience was probably very traumatic for him as well, and he may not have been thinking clearly. (we are all human) If the hospital had some kind of policy it would have helped both him and me.

If this happened to you in the last few months, you should have been dealt with in a much better way than you have been. Whether we agree with JCAHO on this issue or not (many of us don't for a variety of reasons), their advice to hospitals and anesthesia professionals to deal with the issue up front and with true concern for the patients who believe they have experienced this are sound.

Interesting that you think it may have been traumatic for him. Your compassion towards him speaks volumes about your character and personality - you're much nicer about this than I think I would have been.