[Peeps Mcarthur]

Geeze, I leave for a few days and someone has killed the thread.

Since this is a thread specificly for "whinning", I don't see the point of sucking it up. This is a thread to declare your allegiances, not sit on the fence and yell at everyone to stay on thier side silently. This is a forum for science, not liberal arts majors.



from WintrMute2

what did you all think nursing was about? Didn't you guys check into it or did you all think nursing would change for you in the middle of school.

I observed nurses performing daily tasks, and discussed the duties they performed and the skills required. I think you would find a consensus, if you paused to ask the question between tirades, among students who are disallusioned by the difference between what a nurse is responsible for, and the actual training.

Do you think I just entered nursing to change it? I came into it with the perception that nuses function I see nursing school as being something to just "get through" so I can reach a level where I will actually get trained in real science.............how sad.

Kevin has given some examples of how some theorists in nursing "establish" thier hypothesis. I think you should ponder that before making such broad statements. Regardless whether a theory is established or not, the fact remains, it has very little to do with the real science of medicine. Studying soccermomology is not going to advance the actual skills I need, so when I reach the ICU, I will be................what?.....trained to deal with the family while I fumble through trying to learn real science at light speed because my program thought it would be nice to learn psychopsycology?

[l.rae]

Originally posted by WntrMute2
While I like the hard sciences far more than the soft stuff, what did you all think nursing was about? Didn't you guys check into it or did you all think nursing would change for you in the middle of school. If you want things to be different, do your own research, get hired as faculty somewhere and develop a curriculum. The curriculums now are deveploped using ESTABLISHED THEORIES, developed by people who have done their studies and done their homework. suck it up until you decide to change it. Stop whinning, there will be a whole lot you don't like or agree with as a SRNA.

HMMM...what did l think nursing was about?....well it's been so long since l started...l forgot..LOL....however, l will say this..lf someone bothered to shadow clinical nurses for the purpose of deciding on the career, esp. critical care areas, and then decided that was what they wanted to do....they would be perplexed at the portions of the ciriculum that are theory/philosophy.....making them seem all the more incongruent with the actual reality of the nursing profession....and l think that is the case many times.
We need to change the focus of nursing to the sciences, but shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water either...just less water, more baby...right now the baby is drowning........imo..LR

[kmchugh]

Ya know, I see Dave's point. Nursing, after all, encompasses a wide range of disciplines, including the scientific, the less scientific, right down to the touchy-feely. I have no problem with that. My original contention all along is that the touchy-feely is what makes us nurses. BUT...

When the touchy feely is all there is, we are no better than volunteers, offering hugs. There must not only be a balance, but I believe nursing must give greater weight to the scientific aspects of care over the "touchy-feely." I said it in another thread, and I'll say it here: All your psychosocial interventions will be for naught if you kill a patient because nursing school didn't teach you that 40 mEq of K+ given IV push was dangerous, and why.

Kevin McHugh

[Peeps Mcarthur]

By kevin

When the touchy feely is all there is, we are no better than volunteers, offering hugs. There must not only be a balance, but I believe nursing must give greater weight to the scientific aspects of care over the "touchy-feely."

Well, hugs and bedbaths.

When it came to bedbaths, we had hours of intensive supervised practice to do the procedure exactly as it was sequenced with each movement scruntinized for perfection.

All the talk about "the five rights" with one class that tried to cover the broad subject of pharmacology, while still maintaining the heavily weighted psychosocial aspect. I applaud them for thier creative use of the studyguide space, and what little time they were given to address the subject, but they ignored focus on important mechanisms..............................They failed to include any "pharmacology" questions on the test for that section.

I understand why they would want to ignore it, since they don't grasp it themselves, but one can't grasp pharmacology by reading adverse reactions in a drug guide, and that is where they seem to think we'll get our training.

I have decided to transfer to Maryland and get it done. I don't think the curicculum will be much different, but at least I can take some university level science courses. I wanted the 2 year route to gain experience, but find myself taking stock of what I'm really learning, and realize I don't really want more experience at this level.

[Furball]

This thread is great! It's just reinforcing the fact that I get downright nauseous just THINKING about all the BS I'd have to endure if I actually go back to college for my BSN....ug!

[MICU RN]

Peeps:
Hang in there if you really want to become a crna, since it is the only route to becoming one. However, make sure you really want it because it is a long road to endure especially if you already have these types of feelings about nursing and how it is taught. I can totally relate and felt the same way and still do. So I am just sharing my experience. I think the crna route is great for people who are already nurses because it such an improvement and if they already enjoy nursing it is a win-win situation. But when I see people who really can't stand nursing say they want to become a crna, I think they would better off becoming a PA or MD. the main reason I feel this way is because you have to submit yourself to so much ******** before you can even get to anest. school where if you go the PA or MD route it will be very difficult but at least it will be all science based, therefore, the person will probably be happier. This is just my take on it and how I feel at times as I trudge this road myself. By the way, I liked your story about the excessive amount of bed bath and bed making training you are receiveing. It reminds me of one of my co-workers who has been an ICU nurse for a while, she seems to be obsessed with making a perfect bed but don't ask her to many questions about her pt. or what we are doing for them medically to try to get them well. that is when I think I am really in the wrong profession, however, I am almost in a position to start applying to crna school, so I tolerate it and don't let it bother me. If I had to do it again, however, I would seriously look at the options I mentioned. A good place to work when you get your BSN is a teachinh hospital at least there you will be exposed to some interesting medical training which should keep you going until get to anesth. school. it has been my saving grace, I love being in a academic hospital, you will meet some really interesting teachers and learn a hell of alot more than advanced bed making.

[Peeps Mcarthur]

Anthony,

Thanks for the encouragement.

I think this quote from your post sums it up:

It reminds me of one of my co-workers who has been an ICU nurse for a while, she seems to be obsessed with making a perfect bed but don't ask her to many questions about her pt. or what we are doing for them medically to try to get them well.

That's how I see them(nursing vs medical) "criticaly thinking". I most definitely do not think that way, but I must persue a nursing path.

I have good reasons for focusing on nursing. It provides what I would call in golf terms a "bail-out target". Such a way of thinking would be used while taking a shot to a green surrounded by hazzards. You would target the part of the green with the most surface area regardless of pin position.............................or as my instructor would say....."you don't trade your par for a possible chance at birdie" (I keep telling my wife that golf stimulates my brain!).

PA prerequisites are focused on preparation for the medical model, and that's the way I really think. CRNA also focuses on science, but the prerequisites are so out of its focus that a year is required in an ICU for preparation. MD is out of reach financialy, and realisticly since I can't see making it through the selection process this late in life.

In this scenario CRNA is certainly the birdie, but I have to avoid the hazzards............An extra year, more difficult screening process, paying for school, burn-out from soccermomology curicculum.

It's clear that nursing is not a good fit for me academicly, but in regards to me actually doing the job, I think I'll be much better than most. I can arrive at an etiology by using my medical logic while the "nursing brains" are making beds correctly hoping that clean sheets will prevent skin breakdown and harassing the docs for every thinking decision. I won't be looking in a policy and procedure manual to tell me what to do, or chanting Maslow's Hierarchy, or trying to make a nursing "diagnosis", I will be looking at rythms, analyzing labs, and trying to learn what I'll never get in nursing school from the docs.

So here is Brad's Hierarchy of needs

1: CRNA (no explanation needed)
2:PA (an extra year will be needed anyway to fulfill prereqs, so that would make it equivalent time-wise to CRNA)
3:NP (I lose almost all the science, but can diagnose and work autonomously in a medical practice)
[b]4: Specialize in a critical care setting, work for an agency( if GPA goes in the toilet 2nd to nursing theory. set my own hours and chose enviroments that are challenging to me.)

5: Be a golf bum. Take a shot at Senior Tour qualifying.

I was just blathering on, but I fit golf in there and postponed the pain of having a test in Nursing 101 and a final with essay in Life-span Development.

Brad

[l.rae]

[quote]Originally posted by MICU RN
[b]on it and how I feel at times as I trudge this road myself. By the way, I liked your story about the excessive amount of bed bath and bed making training you are receiveing. It reminds me of one of my co-workers who has been an ICU nurse for a while, she seems to be obsessed with making a perfect bed but don't ask her to many questions about her pt. or what we are doing for them medically to try to get them well. that is when I think I am really in the wrong profession, however, I am almost in a position to start applying to crna school, so I tolerate it and don't let it bother me. If I had to do it again, however, I would seriously look at the options I mentioned.

Anthony, please clarify why you think you might be in the wrong profession....sure, there are incompetnt nurses out there, but there are incompetant healthcare workers in ALL fields. Sadly, nursing school does NOT prepare nurses to do the job they are actually required to do after graduation and even sadder is the fact that some nurses never see the light and make the transition. However, having said that, most of the nurses l have worked with are awesome clinicians and critical thinkers...especially in a teaching hospital due to the fact nurses are put in the precarious position of gaurd-dogging the residents. I actually had to tell a first year resident he couldn't order insulin P.O.....Last nite, l had an sleepy attending order d5&1/2 w/40 of K on a diabetic whose K+ was 4.5....(the rate was to be "2am"),give the wrong admitting dx...well l could go on, but l won't, l am sure you get the picture....l guess l am not sure exactly what you are saying about the nursing profession....is it the cirriculum or the or the profession that you tolerate?.......l am considering some different career paths after spending almost 23 years in this profession, so l appreciate perspectives from different forums....thanks........LR

[Espresso girl!]

Okay, the statement "what did you think nursing was about" drove instant fury.

The point it seems is not what we thought it was about but the fact that what it truly is about doesn't cut it in the real world. This, is indeed our complaint. REALISM is what we're after. Passivism is for the folks who wish to remain complacent and continue to bend over, for here it comes.

I am finishing an accelerated BSN, and you'd be amazed at the skill set we're equipped with. Yes, I can sure give a thorough bed bath and help clear the dinner trays. But do you think we ever spent more than 15 minutes on how to read labs, or what a medical chart looks like and how to most proficiently use it to glean information on our patient? Of course not. So back to my original point. Perhaps the fact that we are so dissatified could be channeled into some impetus for change. We are not a bunch of nimble-minded flies anxious to carry a rose down the graduation walkway listening to "the wind beneath my wings". (Please now visualize me sticking my finger down my throat.) Simply sitting back and saying "yeah, I guess this is just what nursing is" will not get us anywhere. This attitude is perhaps why nurses have never been able to organize into any large, cohesive group that can challenge political action toward fair conditions, and better pay, despite the fact they make up the largest group of healthcare workers in the world. Why let someone continue to stomp all over you, beginning with the school? My spirit is with Jimmy Hoffa.

[MICU RN]

I. rae:
Espresso girl expressed herself quite well and I agree with most of her points. those are some of the reasons I feel like I do about our profession. However she missed a few more good points, such as being expected to be the clerk, housekeeper, waiter and nurses aid on top of providing critical care and trying to keep people alive. Nursing is the only college trained profession that puts up with this nonsense. Not to mention the lack of autonomy although we get tons of accountability and responsibility. For all the training we receive we really have hardly any true autonomy. Now the hospitals will blow smoke up our butts all day and encourage us to get every certification under the sun, but don't want to pay you for it. I know, I have a bunch of them.Those are some of the things I don't like about nursing , but ultimately it comes down to I just prefer a more logical and scientific type profession. As I mentioned in my last post on this thread, I have the utmost respect for good nurses and work with many. However, the more I do bedside nursing the more I realize it is not for me and that why I have been working towards getting away from the bedside since day one. I certainlly don't mean to offend anyone who truly enjoys nursing, more power to them and I hope that one day the profession gets the respect and compensation it deserves. I just am not willing to wait around for that day to come.