[wtbcrna]

Originally Posted by DIGNOUT

dfk... I appreciate your hair-splitting. You are correct- no mention of the DNAP by the OP... and yes, the DNAP is very different. As a matter of fact, it's so new, no one has one yet... Such attention to detail must make you quite adept in the OR.

However, the DNP, PhD, and DNAP have been used in tandem and interchangeably throughout these boards, though erroneously (as you pointed out). Because the DNAP is the new "rage" and specific to nurse anesthesia, and the OP was discussing degrees replacing degrees as a matter of requisite, one would surmise the DNAP would be the appropriate "replacement" for the MSNA/MSN/MS/MSHA or whatever other degree one earns with entry into nurse anesthesia practice. I take no side as to whether Master's preparation should be replaced for entry into practice...so we'll nip that before you can offer a rebuttle.

And, while we're splitting hairs... what I said is applicable to whatever doctorate is earned, correct? Cut out DNAP, and glue in whatever doctorate you might like or may think is most applicable to the OP. So, what's your beef?

Actually, there is at least one DNAP it is at VCU http://www.pubapps.vcu.edu/bulletins...nal/?did=20573. I also just heard that the AANA just recommened moving to the DNAP by 2025. I heard it was just announced at this years AANA meeting.

[dfk]

Originally Posted by DIGNOUT

dfk... I appreciate your hair-splitting. You are correct- no mention of the DNAP by the OP... and yes, the DNAP is very different. As a matter of fact, it's so new, no one has one yet... Such attention to detail must make you quite adept in the OR.

However, the DNP, PhD, and DNAP have been used in tandem and interchangeably throughout these boards, though erroneously (as you pointed out). Because the DNAP is the new "rage" and specific to nurse anesthesia, and the OP was discussing degrees replacing degrees as a matter of requisite, one would surmise the DNAP would be the appropriate "replacement" for the MSNA/MSN/MS/MSHA or whatever other degree one earns with entry into nurse anesthesia practice. I take no side as to whether Master's preparation should be replaced for entry into practice...so we'll nip that before you can offer a rebuttle.

And, while we're splitting hairs... what I said is applicable to whatever doctorate is earned, correct? Cut out DNAP, and glue in whatever doctorate you might like or may think is most applicable to the OP. So, what's your beef?

ouch!
no beef here...
i hear by 2025 that the doctoral degree will be a requirement.. by then, i hope to be a grandfather...

[DIGNOUT]

Originally Posted by wtbcrna

Actually, there is at least one DNAP it is at VCU http://www.pubapps.vcu.edu/bulletins...nal/?did=20573. I also just heard that the AANA just recommened moving to the DNAP by 2025. I heard it was just announced at this years AANA meeting.

You are correct... the first DNAP will be offered at VCU. The first class has not yet met, however, and will begin this month. Thus, no DNAPs just yet.

[DIGNOUT]

Originally Posted by DIGNOUT

You are correct... the first DNAP will be offered at VCU. The first class has not yet met, however, and will begin this month. Thus, no DNAPs just yet.

Correction to my previous post: DNAP coursework etc. at VCU will begin January 2008.

[MB37]

So my husband and I can be Dr. and Mr. Lastname? Awesome!

[Just a CRNA]

Originally Posted by Little Fish

No! Its stupid. And any nurse that would pass themselves off as doctor is a fraud. We can receive our doctorates but that is reserved for the academic setting. Not the clinical setting. It would be misrepresenting yourself.

By definition, a DNP is a CLINICAL doctorate, just as an MD and DO are clinical doctorates. On the other hand, PhDs tend to be RESEARCH doctorates and are actually the "original" doctorates. If anyone has a right to be offended at the hijacking of a title, it is they. The best definition of the various doctorates is this: PhDs are invloved with creating new knowledge, EdDs are invloved in spreading that knowledge throughout the training arena, and Clinical doctors are consumers of the knowledge and applying it over the broad base of a real world environment.
The AANA board of directors presented a position paper at the national meeting in Denver that generally supported the AACN's vision of a clinical doctorate as an entry level degree for advanced practice nurses. However, the AANA could not endorse the 2015 mandate and instead stated that they would support 2025 as a projected date for this requirement. Until that time, anyone graduating from a program accredited by the COA will be eligible to sit for the national certifying exam. Once you are a CRNA, you will continue to be a CRNA as long as you continue to meet continuing education requirements and maintain your certification. If you choose to return to school and earn a doctorate, good for you...but it is not and will not be a requirement once you are past the certifying exam.
As far as splitting hairs. The DNP is generally associated with programs within or allied with a school of nursing. Other degrees such as the DNAP will probably evolve from programs not associated with a nursing school, but instead a school of health science or some other related school. Since the current programs in the US are divided between these two scenarios, look for both of these degree options to be in the future educational realm. Both will be eligible to sit for the national exam, and those who pass will both be called CRNA.

[HannitizeYou]

Originally Posted by Biotechnology

I agree with little fish. Calling yourself a doctor in the clinical setting is a sure misrepresentation to the public. There is enough confusion with patients not knowing or understanding peoples job titles in the hospital as it all ready is. No need to make it worst.

I disagree with this line of thinking. If you receive your doctorate, it does make you a DOCTOR. There is no point in refusing to call yourself what you have attained because you somehow feel "oppressed" by the medical establishment. That is really the issue isn't it? You are a doctor, you are not a medical doctor, but you have obtained a doctoral degree and hence are a Doctor...of nursing practice. If you fall into the trap of "I am not going to call myself a doctor" even though you have obtained the degree that you worked long and hard for, you are just basically contiuning the cycle of oppression that nurses experience daily by some, not all, medical doctors. Why would you do that to yourself?

Sean

[dfk]

Originally Posted by HannitizeYou

I disagree with this line of thinking. If you receive your doctorate, it does make you a DOCTOR. There is no point in refusing to call yourself what you have attained because you somehow feel "oppressed" by the medical establishment. That is really the issue isn't it? You are a doctor, you are not a medical doctor, but you have obtained a doctoral degree and hence are a Doctor...of nursing practice. If you fall into the trap of "I am not going to call myself a doctor" even though you have obtained the degree that you worked long and hard for, you are just basically contiuning the cycle of oppression that nurses experience daily by some, not all, medical doctors. Why would you do that to yourself?

Sean

hanni,
i agree with you for the most part. but, is it fair if you introduce yourself to a patient as doctor, and they of course will be thinking medical, and you don't clarify, aren't you misleading them? that in and of itself would be liable to suit. now, that being said, i have worked with and under many PhDs who at bedside do NOT introduce themselves as doctor but by first name. clarity is the issue most of the time. a dentist is a doctor but not an MD, yet they are called doctor. i do agree that anyone that has earned a degree of doctor should be entitled to receive such salutation, however, there is a place for such... in my opinion anyway.

[DIGNOUT]

Originally Posted by dfk

hanni,
i agree with you for the most part. but, is it fair if you introduce yourself to a patient as doctor, and they of course will be thinking medical, and you don't clarify, aren't you misleading them? that in and of itself would be liable to suit. now, that being said, i have worked with and under many PhDs who at bedside do NOT introduce themselves as doctor but by first name. clarity is the issue most of the time. a dentist is a doctor but not an MD, yet they are called doctor. i do agree that anyone that has earned a degree of doctor should be entitled to receive such salutation, however, there is a place for such... in my opinion anyway.

Dentists at my institution introduce themselves as "Doctor" if they are visiting a patient on consult in CICU. Are they misleading patients?

[dfk]

Originally Posted by DIGNOUT

Dentists at my institution introduce themselves as "Doctor" if they are visiting a patient on consult in CICU. Are they misleading patients?

nope. not as long as they clarify dental doc.