[finks]

Hi
I am trying to find out about what pay scale i can expect to start on when i return to the UK.
I am a UK trained nurse currently living in NZ.I have been in NZ for 9 years.I have 12 years experience in surgical/recovery.
I have noted on several advertised posts that it states
==For new entrants to the NHS pay will normally be set at the minimum of the pay band==
I am unable to get a definate answer from different sources i have asked but wish to find out if the above is going to apply to me.
Would i be considered a new entrant as i have been out of the NHS for so long(9 years) so starting on the minimum of the pay band.I would be going in as a Band 5 RN.I last worked in the UK in from 1996(when i qualified) to 1998.
Or can i expect to commence higher up the scale due to my experience??? What could i expect to get???
I can`t seem to find any contact details,e-mail is best due to being in NZ so was wondering if anyone had been in a similair situation.
Thanks.

[sharrie]

Hi FInks, welcome to allnurses.

We are now on the agenda for change pay rates in the UK, if you do a google search there is loads of info out there about agenda for change.

I imagine you will start as a band 5 nurse and the pay scale starts £19454 and goes up to £25,175 usually unless you have NHS service you will start at the bottom of the band, but at interview I would advise you ask about reckonable service and where you will be put on the pay scale, you can negaotiate for a high pay as you have many years experience that is relevent to the job. It may be worth applying for band 6 posts although I am not sure how other trusts would view the lack of NHS expereince. Personally I would snap you up with all that experience but then thats just me

[LiverpoolJane]

I think Sharrie is right, you may have to take a band 5 post but if you do I'm sure that as soon as you have settled in you would have a better chance than most of being successful in applying for a higher band as they become available.
I have accepted a job in the US that is equivelant to a band 5, even though I am a band 7 now. I am happy to do this as I hope it will allow me time to adjust to a new culture and if / when I feel confident enough I may want to apply for a higher band. I know you are from the UK but I know from going that even moving from NHS trusts or from private back to NHS things are so different and you may be glad of a bit of time to adjust.
A problem I had when I took this job was I was on a higher salary than bottom band 7 and at interview was promised a incremental point equivalant to what I was on. However when I was sent my contract my starting salary was bottom band 7 and when I questioned this I was told by HR that the rules of AfC was that you had to start on the bottom of the band. My union said this was rubbish and eventually I was upgraded to my original offer. That was a few years ago and I hope the rules are more transparant so you can negotiate for a rate that recognises your experience.

[conradrn]

How do they determine "bands?" Is that how much experience you have or what area you work in? I have 9 years exp mainly cardiothoracic ICU. Any guess as to which band I would be in??
Thanks!:

[sharrie]

If you are coming from the US you will first have to get yourself registered by the NMC www.nmc_uk.org then IF you could find a job as priority goes to UK then european nationals first and we are unable to find jobs for all our nurses at the moment, so if you could find a job you will be employed as a newly qualified initially on a band 5. You may be lucky then with your experience to get a 6 fairly quickly but again you will be competing with UK and European nurses who will take priority if you apply outside the organisation that you are already working for

[ZippyGBR]

Originally Posted by conradrn

How do they determine "bands?" Is that how much experience you have or what area you work in? I have 9 years exp mainly cardiothoracic ICU. Any guess as to which band I would be in??
Thanks!:

bands are based around job descriptions and how that role corresponds with level descriptions in ?13? domains so the levels within the domains and a weighting for importance of the domain determine the points a job description gets

points = prizes there are ranges of point scores which equate to the bandings

in a band there are increments which are based on annual progression - there are two gateways in a band - foundation and upper - to pass through the foundation gateway you have to meet the foundation knowledge and skills framework criteria and to to pass the upper you have to meet the full knowledge and skills framework criteria i.e. you are 'fully competent' in that role.

how many years experience you have in total is not entirely relevent - how many years you have in band is relevant

with nine years experience you could be any band from 5 - 8 depending what you have done with those nine years

you could be a maxed out on increments band 5 staff nurse or you could be in any of band 6,7 or 8 with a role with increased clinical or managerial responsibilities

[sharrie]

Zippy is quite write and gives a lovely description of the agenda for change process, but as an nurse coming from overseas you will be very unlikely to get anything greater than a band 5 due to lack of experience of the NHS.

[SteveRN21]

Wow.... I don't know how you all keep track of all the bands, gateways, levels, etc.... I do think it's a good idea to have to have a certain skill set and proficency before being able to advance.

[sharrie]

It's not too difficult Steve, the bands are the payscale. So a your basic staff nurse will come out on a band 5. Anything below that is generally for unqualified staff, our nursing assistants are a band 2, senior nursing assistants band 3

Band 6's are generally for your deputy ward managers, although some specialist nurses and nurse practitioners are at this level as well as are some speciality nurses such as in ICU.

Band 7's for your charge nurses / ward managers, senior specialist nurses or team leaders.

8's are in general senior nurses who have responsibility for more than one area so I have 5 wards and 2 clinics that I am responsible for so I will be on a band 8 within this band there are also sub bands that reflect the level or responsibility, I am a 8a, there is another senior nurse who is senior to me and covers an additional 4 wards and the specialist nurses she and is an 8b.


The gateways are linked to something called keys skills framework which is all part of profesional development and the gateways are within this framework. Each year you will get a payrise (incremental increase in your pay) until you reach the top of your payscale (band) KSF is supposed to ensure that you meet the objectives within your job description and should be evaluated annually at a PDP.

It's not too complicated once you get your head around the different roles

[wembley1]

Interesting on how you work out your banding and applicable banding for nurses. I myself have spent a few years in the UK, worked agency in London. Coming from Australia, generally an RN from the UK coming to Australia will be assessed based on their overall experience, not based on their experience of the health system in Australia. I think it is quite interesting and quite biased how the UK system looks at NHS experience, how you can put a senior nurse, i.e., 5 years plus experience at a band 5, first pay point level alongside a newly qualified RN, is quite funny really!!! But I guess that explains why so many of us Australians actually do agency. I worked in a lot of A&E departments throughout London, and if it wasn't for us Aussie and Kiwi nurses, I would hate to think how these A&E departments would go, and this includes band 6 and band 7's. Generally the level of most of us was a very senior band 6 or 7, scary to think if we worked directly for the NHS we would only be band 5!!! But, I guess as some of you guys stated, can go for higher banded job.