[NurseDennie]

Oh Lordie - another subject I don't understand.

Norbert, I didn't follow you - could you please explain about how short supply should = increased compensation and that nursing doesn't fail to follow the rule?

I sort of understand about supply and demand, because, although I don't LIKE it, I can UNDERSTAND how big time athletes and singers and actors get paid so much. But I'm not understanding this bit of it.

Oh *sigh* It's almost 0915 - I was supposed to be at work at 0900 and I'm not. I'm too depressed to shower. I wonder if I should just call in "Funky"

Love

Dennie

[fergus51]

When demand for something increases because of a short supply, competition for that thing (nurses in this case) should drive up prices. Frankly, I don't think money will get all those nurses back. A lot of places in the US have wages that I consider to be excellent, but it's all relative. I consider 40K a year to be perfectly reasonable for a nurse.

[fergus51]

So my next question is why aren't people working to change the system instead of just stating that immigrants will turn nursing into a MacDonald's profession? Our American nurse actually complained about all the red tape she had to go through to get liscenced and take a job here. Why isn't it the same in the US? Unionize, organize, do something!

[sjoe]

fergus51--I didn't state that no US nurses were working in SA. Some nurses I know have worked there (and they seem to believe that if ANYTHING at all goes wrong in the SA hospital while they are there, "the foreigner" gets blamed for it).

I even made a point of saying that a few countries can and do offer more money for certain specialties (and that includes SA). BUT I haven't seen any indication that people in those countries are complaining about US nurses taking these positions, and I also stated this.

AND the number of US nurses working in SA is tiny, compared to the number of foreign nurses working in the US, as I pointed out.

Look before you leap.

As far as your later posts are concerned, "It isn't just about the money," (though $40K certainly is NOT an adequate income for those of us who live in cities and/or are raising families). Some of us don't choose to be treated like unskilled workers, or dogs, regardless of the pay.

You might check out the other related thread suggested above for further discussion of these issues.

[fergus51]

It's not about the money is exactly what I am saying there sjoe. And I understand that 40K in San Diego is different than in a town outside of California's high cost of living. I just don't believe that 2.7 million nurses are out of the profession just because of the money like Norbert was saying, or that if nurse wages increased we would suddenly see them all coming back. I just don't believe there are enough American nurses WILLING to be nurses right now despite the fact that nursing does offer SOME good opportunities. Nurses who don't like their schedules can go agency, they can become travel nurses to make more money, they can go into advanced practice or education or administration, etc. But there still aren't enough working right now. Whether that can be changed with better wages or working conditions is one thing to debate, but the fact that immigrant nurses are needed to provide care right now is another.

And I understand that fewer US nurses go overseas, I never said there were more overseas than there were foreigners in the US, but if you want that right then you can't always complain about the devil foreigners coming to the US. They have to write the same exam you did, and if you don't want them working in your hospital you can try to do something about it. See my above post: What is anyone posting on this thread doing about it?

[donmurray]

Re the "Acceptable " foreigners in post #8. When I visit the States, I have to go through the "Aliens" gate like any other foreigner. US nurses coming to the UK have to meet our standards, and that is how it should be, wherever you are from, or go.
To Norbert, I would only comment that a basic tenet of capitalism is that you keep your profit as high as you can, and your costs (nurses' pay) low as you can.

[NurseDennie]

That's very true, DonMurray. I've always felt that in relation to industry, we'd be considered a piece of equipment, necessary for the production of whatever the company makes. The equipment itself is just there and you want to get it as cheaply as possible. You want it to work as much/long/hard as it possibly can. If it breaks down or starts to cause problems, then you replace it quickly and with as little fuss as possible.

I've always wondered if they started charging for nurses as a point of care thing, if maybe at least the money part of it would be better? I mean a 10% profit on $100 is more than a 10% profit on $50, isn't it?

Love

Dennie

[Faby]

dear Alansmith: I disagree with your point of view. I don't think that any foreign nurse could steal your job, if you loose is because o yourself. Foreign nurses have to taker the same examination as nurses in USA, after passing an educational screening wich includes anothe nursing examination, it's really hard. Besides nurses in SA are as well educated as nurses in USA. ie in Uruguay we have one unified nursing program for all the country, I know it's a small country, it takes 4 years and 6 months after we earn a bachelor's degree. Listen all the nurses in our country have bachelors degree. there's no other intermediate degree.
In adition, the conditions in which we work make us be very creative, we don't have many of the medical devices that you do. When installing an IV line we have to be precise, we can't waste devices; on the other hand we manage a group of assistants who care agroup of patients ( 24 to 30). On ER generally are 1 or 2 nurses per shift, I mean really huge ER with a Critical Care unit in it, 300 consults per day. this bad conditions is what make us skilled in various circumnstances.ie I'm a 19 years experienced nurse and I'm skilled on ER, med surg, ICU, obsterics and ginecology.
It's really hard to me to realize what you think of foreign nurses, I think there are bad nurses all around the world even in USA. The thing is to love your profession wherever you are.

[Ex130Load]

Fergus51,

I'm sorry, but I don't really consider ya'll Canadians foreigners. You're more like brothers--we'll often drink the same beer if availible, eat the same foods (outside of that French thing ya got going on), drive on the same side of the road, drive the same kinds of cars, and speak the same language (outside of that French thing again).
If it weren't for a couple of twists of history, our borders would be the arctic and Mexico. I think it still could work...

[fergus51]

Ex, I was just in the US for a vacation, and I always think the US and Canada are the same until I go down there! You should see the look on people's faces when I say "brown bread" or "Kraft dinner"!