[azgirl]

Six years experience and is specialty.

Not trying to be critical. Just throwing information out there.

[Huganurse]

..

[nurs4kids]

I'm still with suzy in agreement that a NEW GRAD does not deserve $80k/yr. I just don't think this salary issue can be settled with a cross-the-board figure.

You have to figure education, speciality, experience and cost of living, etc. It'd be ludicrious for a new grad here to start out at $80k and a new grad in, say NY to start out at the same pay. A modest 2br apt here is around $600/month, a new three bedroom home is around $140k. NY, the same figures are close to doubled. If we're going to slap one salary, then we must also slap on one education level. I have to agree, again with Suzy, that we should raise the minimum entry level to BSN. It'd be pretty ridiculous for someone who went to school for two years to make that close to what a doctor makes. After all, the cost of the md's education is astronomical compared to that of a nurse; not to mention compensating a md for the added responsibility (yes, they DO have more responsibility, don't lie to yourself) and their added sacrifices (I work in a teaching hospital, so I KNOW they sacrifice a helluva lot for residency). As for speciality: I'm not nearly as likely to be sued for giving reglan when zantac was ordered on a post-surgical floor as suzy is to be sued for a birth defect caused by something overlooked during birth. We deserve the same pay? (BTW, suzy, you're selling yourself short, girl! You DO deserve more money). Now, this experience thing is interesting to me. Do I think a new grad deserves the same pay as a, say 6 yr nurse? absolutely not. Do I think a 7yr nurse deserves the same pay as a 15yr nurse in the same field? Pretty close. There comes a point where experience is experience, period. Also, comes the point in experience where a (just had this happen) 20 yr nurse comes to work in a NEW speciality. Of course she wants and deserves to be compensated for her experience, but she knows less about this speciality than the 2 yr nurse. Does she truly deserve more? I dunno. I, personally (and my opinion here may change with age), feel that if you CHOOSE to change specialities late in your career, then YOU should pay the salary penalty.

Am I happy with my $45k/yr salary? Nope. Do I think I deserve $80k/yr? Nope. Somewhere in the middle would be nice. Had my salary not been the victim of compression, I may even be happy with the $45k. But I have a real problem with new grads making just $2k/yr less than me.

just mho..well, not exactly humble, but yanno

[Q.]

Originally posted by azgirl
Six years experience and is specialty.

Not trying to be critical. Just throwing information out there.

Then his pay is probably appropriate. The debate was about paying new grads this amount.

[azgirl]

I agree that is an experienced rate. New grad I think he got around $15.

He also had been a medic in the service but that was too long ago to help but let him know he had what it takes to do the job.

Sorry I missed that the talk was of new grads making that amount.

[25yearsrn]

wild,
I was once burned out and sold real estate. I had a ball doing it, but it is very competitive. I worked 70 hr per wk, most weekends as that is when people usually have time to look at houses, and received calls at home from clients as early as 730am and as late as 11pm. I was the top listing and selling agent in my office within 2 yr with 1 million closed my 1st yr. And guess what my salary was for my 1st year when all was said and done??? Try $15,000. No insurance.... not medical,not dental. Yes, you can write off the wear and tear on your car and other expenses, but you need to build your clients and work your butt off to get to the $40,000/yr range. Anyone telling you different wants you to work for them because the office where you work will take approx 1/2 of your commissions, unless you negotiate a better deal up front. Good luck! I am not saying you won't do well. but just know that it is not a bowl of cherries.

[mjamesRN]

80K a year is possible. More is possible. Due to the shortage I suppose. My hospital offers a weekend program that if you work nights,(3 weekends a month) along with the differential you make about $48/ hour. Some of the agencies around here only require 6 months of med-surg experience and pay up to $50/ hour. No benefits though -- you have to find your own healthcare insurance AND with that Weekend program, you get no sick time or holiday pay -- So if you are sick and call out, you lose that money.
The nurses who choose to stay in corporate hospital continue their education with tuition reimbursement, become nurse managers and educators and resource nurses and carry clipboards all day and get paid no more than 50K...the shortage thus continues in bedside nurses.
My question is: What are all the experienced war-horse nurses doing to see that salary commesurate with experience???? Nothing. They ***** among themselves, eat alot of crow, and once in while they strike. The others continue their education, get their piece of the pie and forget the team.

[Q.]

Very insightful post MJames.

You're right. I'm one of those nurses - getting more educated to get my piece of the pie and leave the team. Although my argument to that is that we will always need nurses in those areas of admin, research and academia. So it makes you wonder if the problem with pay is not in nursing as a whole, but rather just with bedside nursing? And if it IS with bedside nursing, why?

My goal is to be a professor of nursing. I would think the pay for a professor in nursing would be the same as a professor of chemistry. Although I don't know for sure.....if it is then that tells me that the pay problem seems to lie with bedside only (and clinic by the way, which is where I am now making RIDICULOUS pay)

[fergus51]

One of my best nursing instructors told me she only makes about 50K a year and that's with a masters degree. Of course, she does get three months a year off... I think good nursing instructors are absolutely priceless and should be paid as much! I am sure you'll be a good instructor Suzy, I liked the honest, maybe even a little blunt ones the best

[mjamesRN]

Nursing instructors are diamonds among us for sure (and 50K is the standing salary), but the whole while I was in classes their disposition seemed to be saying "Are you sure you want to do this?" And of course all grads say later, "They didn't teach us this in school."
Clinical days were nothing compared to real life -- I guess if we did see real life, we'd all change our majors or drop out. I still hear their voices echoing in my head while I'm working however, especailly Basic nursing-- like straightening the linens, putting the bedside table where the patient can reach it, applying vaseline to post-op lips, etc...the little things that are imperative.
Gee, I miss those little aspects. Now if the vaseline isn't right there at the time, it usually waits because I have a five million papers to notate in and computerize NOW or I'll forget to do it later and then I'll be threatened with being supoenaed to court.
Nursing stinks. Why do we always have to feel like there is an axe hanging over our heads? Just to have to endure that pressure is worth much more than we're paid.
Another thing, when I voice a disgruntled complaint standing alone at the mouth of the dragon's den, I'm told "This is what Nursing is".

What IS Nursing anyway???????? Will someone tell me before I run screaming into the streets!!!!!!!!