[Elvish]

Interesting take, Multi. I can see that perspective.
I am of two minds - the mother in me would have a thirst for revenge and no punishment would be too harsh for the one who so much as laid a finger on my child.

The rational human being part of me sees why the death penalty is probably not the best resolution in cases like this.

[towntalker]

this child was the step-child of perp, the offense occurred several years ago and the girl is now a young lady attending college but the grandmother when she spoke of it cried like it was happening all over again
i know that the chld feels much the same way, i hope she has had some help in dealing with this and that this will fade away from public view and she can have a normal happy life

[danissa]

Originally Posted by Stanley-RN2B

As a father of a child that has died I understand. However, if you were to mete out the 'justice' it would only amount to revenge. People that can't be reformed are given full life sentences. However you can't decide which crime is heinous enough to immediately warrant death. As much as I despise these people too, justice has to be just. The child still has his life so the criminal must keep theirs.

I understand that if it was my child then I would want revenge. It would be revenge too. That is why a jury and judge rule, not victims.

Now if they kill a child, kill em. If they just rape a child well... If damaging a person's life emotionally and psychologically was punishable by death then when do we start lining up abusive parents and significant others?

We are talking about rape here... Murder warrants death.

Stanley, I read through your thread again and again. You are obviously an intelligent adult who has thought this through. We don't know what happened when you lost your child, and I hope that none of this discussion impinges on your feelings regarding your loss. To anyone who has lost a child, my heart really and truley breaks for you, I know that pain in a second hand way, we lost the dear boy who would have been our Son-in -Law, who we loved very much, three years ago, and to this day, I grieve his loss daily.
Revenge, or justice was not an option in that case. Another young boy's life was shattered, as was that of my daughter. My point is, accidents are somehow forgiveable in the end, as those who caused the accident suffer forever.
When it comes to meaningful hurt, no accident.....string them up!
How CAN an adult willfully hurt a child??? Physically, sexually, emotionally?????

Stanley, these words of yours, really struck me..and I quote....
"If they "JUST" rape a child......" , right through to "Murder warrants death"
Words fail me, but if some scum raped my child, that would warrant death, for the taking of their innocence and ruining their lives by force and violence.
And I would spend my life in jail for the justice of killing any piece of scum who deliberately hurt my babies in this way.

Why would you take such an easy line on scum who are abusers, I have Zero tolerance..Hang them all by the Balls!

[Stanley-RN2B]

Why take such an easy line? Because, to me (and you can read my posts in other threads) all criminals are scum. Whether they rob, kill, drive drunk or break Hipaa. A criminal is a criminal.

How that relates to this? People like me are the reason there are laws to protect the rights of everyone. Even criminals. I view the world in very black and white terms. If someone killed your child then you killed them I would rally for your death too.

You can't be the judge, jury and executioner. Otherwise we might as well be Iran and start stoning people to death.

Why stop at child rapists. Let's get all rapists... then hey let's get drug dealers because drugs kill children. Then let's kill abusive parents. Ok they are gone, let's kill bullies because sometimes kids kill themselves d/t bullying. Let's kill social workers that miss signs of abuse that results in the child dying. Let's kill soldiers that accidentally drop a bomb and a child dies...

You see where I am going with this. Pretty soon I could execute the Republicans which I vehemently oppose because some animal urge compels me too.

What makes us human and not on the same level as wild animals is not our love or hate or anger or joy. Emotions don't make us unique. It's our ability to override irrational emotions that makes us human.

Hey, if we all vote to behave like animals I have a small arsenal and I've been trained by the military. Let's have at it!!!!

~304 Million Americans. ~2 Million Criminals in Jail. Shall we start the culling of our lesser citizens? Ready to kill .6% of our population? I'll go if you go first...

[danissa]

Originally Posted by Stanley-RN2B

Why take such an easy line? Because, to me (and you can read my posts in other threads) all criminals are scum. Whether they rob, kill, drive drunk or break Hipaa. A criminal is a criminal.

How that relates to this? People like me are the reason there are laws to protect the rights of everyone. Even criminals. I view the world in very black and white terms. If someone killed your child then you killed them I would rally for your death too.

You can't be the judge, jury and executioner. Otherwise we might as well be Iran and start stoning people to death.

So Stanley, you would place equal punishment on someone who commits a robbery, (taking possessions, not life), and some scum who takes the innocence or the life of a child? Crime is not always crime in equal measure. Yes, to go against the laws of the land you hail from, that is always gonna be wrong, but there are varying degrees of wrongdoing, as recognised by law, and in severity of punishment. So , to say that a criminal is a criminal, and band petty theft alongside rape of a minor is wrong, a totally different ballgame.
I never put myself up for the position of judge jury and executioner, thats not for me to decide. If i carried out my own terms of justice on an evil scumbag who hurt my child, you would rally for my death?? Where does that place you, alongside the other folk with the stones in their hands????

[Stanley-RN2B]

Originally Posted by danissa

So Stanley, you would place equal punishment on someone who commits a robbery, (taking possessions, not life), and some scum who takes the innocence or the life of a child? Crime is not always crime in equal measure. Yes, to go against the laws of the land you hail from, that is always gonna be wrong, but there are varying degrees of wrongdoing, as recognised by law, and in severity of punishment. So , to say that a criminal is a criminal, and band petty theft alongside rape of a minor is wrong, a totally different ballgame.
I never put myself up for the position of judge jury and executioner, thats not for me to decide. If i carried out my own terms of justice on an evil scumbag who hurt my child, you would rally for my death?? Where does that place you, alongside the other folk with the stones in their hands????

Yes, I will most likely have a stone. All criminals are scum. Theft, murder, rape, car jacking, insider trading. They are all crimes. Are there certain circumstances that may mitigate a crime? Sure but that is for the judge to decide.

The law of this land says punishment SHOULD be proportionate to the crime. If no life is taken you can not take their life. Any other course would be a violation of our law and constitution.

No matter what the criminal has done, in the eyes of our justice system their life is worth no less than your child's life. Even if he rapes your child and ruins the child's life, he goes to prison for a very long time which isn't exactly a great life either.

Right is right. Wrong is wrong. There is no such thing partially right or wrong. People like to say there is but they are only justifying their wrongness to themselves.

BTW - There are no varying degrees of wrongdoing. The law just ensures that the punishment fits. A felon is a felon. Whether it was murder or larceny. The cops and courts treat them all the same. Am I wrong for doing the same???

[♪♫ in my ♥]

Originally Posted by Stanley-RN2B

Yes, I will most likely have a stone. All criminals are scum. Theft, murder, rape, car jacking, insider trading. They are all crimes.

While I essentially agree with your 'slippery slope' premise, I do separate crimes into two categories (while recognizing that there is still a blurry gray area in the middle): Violent crimes versus all the others.

That said, my formerly right-wing 'electric bleachers' viewpoint has been tempered by maturity and I grow less and less comfortable with the death penalty year by year, even for those who most certainly deserve it.

On a purely personal level, though, I can honestly envision myself tormenting and destroying a person who hurt my little girl in that fashion. I'm not particularly proud of it but I see that darkness down in there. That's why we have the courts -- to help temper the individual passions.

[Stanley-RN2B]

I do have a problem with the death penalty, but not with the actual death. My problem is that how do you really know someone is truly guilty unless they get caught in the act or on film?

The number of people released from death row after DNA clears them is quite disturbing. As far as I am concerned, executing an innocent person IS murder. I would rather err on the side of caution.

I don't know if that means I have a problem with the death penalty or the court system itself. Until we have a fool proof method I shy away from demanding the death penalty.

Of course, if it was my child, I would most likely lose all objectivity and rationality. Having already lost a child, I can pretty much say how I would react. It probably would ruin or end my life. If I had to hurt someone that hurt my child I would gladly accept the 'price' I had to pay. Hopefully someone more rational would stop me before I did that though.

[♪♫ in my ♥]

Originally Posted by Stanley-RN2B

I do have a problem with the death penalty, but not with the actual death. My problem is that how do you really know someone is truly guilty unless they get caught in the act or on film?

The number of people released from death row after DNA clears them is quite disturbing. As far as I am concerned, executing an innocent person IS murder. I would rather err on the side of caution.

I don't know if that means I have a problem with the death penalty or the court system itself. Until we have a fool proof method I shy away from demanding the death penalty.

Yep, that's my chief concern as well. That and the fact that one's financial resources, social status, and ethnicity play into the likelihood of even being tried for a capital offense let alone the outcomes of both the guilt phase and the penalty phase of the trial. It seems like many of the government representatives are more concerned with attaining convictions than necessarily ensuring that justice prevails.

In my case, though, I've also grown less and less comfortable with the notion of the government killing its citizens, regardless of the reason.

[cardiacRN2006]

Originally Posted by Stanley-RN2B

. If they just rape a child well...

...just rape a child???