[Suesquatch]

Originally Posted by caliotter3

The bigger problem we had with what was going on was that a little boy, Muslim, I believe, was being singled out for not participating. To me that was cruel.

And my brother and his family lived in NC for awhile. There was a Christian athletic league promoted within the school. My nephew's teacher actually told one little girl that she couldn't join because she was Jewish.

[mercyteapot]

Originally Posted by fergus51

Sure, but why do you think people get Sundays off? It's because of our Christian religious heritage. Xmas is a national holiday for the same reason. It's easy to say the other religions don't deserve any accomodation when yours already has been accomodated.

BTW, the separation between church and state doesn't necessitate prayer be held off campus. School districts have even been found to be in the wrong when they banned Christian study groups held on campus during lunch hours.

Lunch hours, not school hours. The article specifically talks about extracurricular activities, so I really didn't think I needed to address that.

Saturday and Sunday may have originally been slated as weekends because of religious observations, but that's not why we still have them off. I don't know who this "we" is that gets Good Friday off, because I work for a state university and we don't get it as a holiday. Christmas, yes, but only because it is also a national holiday. We also get Easter off, because it always falls on a Sunday, but we don't get it as a paid holiday.

[fergus51]

Originally Posted by mercyteapot

Lunch hours, not school hours. The article specifically talks about extracurricular activities, so I really didn't think I needed to address that.

Saturday and Sunday may have originally been slated as weekends because of religious observations, but that's not why we still have them off. I don't know who this "we" is that gets Good Friday off, because I work for a state university and we don't get it as a holiday. Christmas, yes, but only because it is also a national holiday. We also get Easter off, because it always falls on a Sunday, but we don't get it as a paid holiday.

So, would calling this a recess break for all students make it ok? Then it's the same as lunch hours and kids can do what they want with it eh?

It just seems petty to me that we'd spite them for getting 15 minutes in the middle of a school day to accomodate their religion when the dominant religion gets to enjoy every Sabbath off of school and gets to celebrate the birth of their savior with 2 weeks or so off in the winter. I don't see how this hurts the Christians or other non-muslims.

BTW, I get that Christmas is a national holiday. It's just a coincidence that it's a religious holiday for Christians and that they are the only religion whose holy day becomes a national holiday

I got mixed up on good Friday. It's cause we had Easter Monday as a national holiday in Canada, so Easter weekend is always a long weekend. Good Friday isn't a national holiday in the US, though it is a state holiday in certain states. So some schools are closed in observance of it. Some aren't.

[mercyteapot]

Originally Posted by fergus51

So, would calling this a recess break for all students make it ok? Then it's the same as lunch hours and kids can do what they want with it eh?

It just seems petty to me that we'd spite them for getting 15 minutes in the middle of a school day to accomodate their religion when the dominant religion gets to enjoy every Sabbath off of school and gets to celebrate the birth of their savior with 2 weeks or so off in the winter. I don't see how this hurts the Christians or other non-muslims.

BTW, I get that Christmas is a national holiday. It's just a coincidence that it's a religious holiday for Christians and that they are the only religion whose holy day becomes a national holiday

I got mixed up on good Friday. It's cause we had Easter Monday as a national holiday in Canada, so Easter weekend is always a long weekend. Good Friday isn't a national holiday in the US, though it is a state holiday in certain states. So some schools are closed in observance of it. Some aren't.

So are you not from the US, then? The problem with making this accommodation for Muslim students is that Christian students have been expressly forbidden to participate in organized prayer during school hours. While I understand that Islam dictates prayer at specific times, my understanding is that many Christians feel "called" to prayer and may feel that a calling is equal to a dictate. Why are Muslims being given the opportunity to answer their calling when students of other religions aren't afforded the same chance? And no, making it recess wouldn't work. Either the Constitution is interpreted so strictly that it prohibits organized prayer for everyone or for no one. I don't really mind which way it goes, but I do object to preferential treatment when political correctness runs amok.

Recess isn't long enough for other extracurricular clubs to meet and participate in their activities. Plus, when are these kids supposed to have their academics? My son's school is divided into block days where they have extended study in each subject on specific days of the week. This is becoming more popular in many public schools, especially those with a large percentage of college bound students. Breaks are scheduled to maximize the benefit of these blocks. Changing the schedule for the accommodation of religion would not work well at all.

[CHATSDALE]

i was working with in an federal office once and we had this lady who had transferred in from up north somewhere, anyway about noon she went to grab something to eat and she came back and said something about how many children she had seen out of school...everybody looked at her and then we told her schools were closed for mardi gras
she had left her children to catch the school bus and they were home alone all day
beomg the little monsters that they were they didn't call her up and let her know about it,
by the way the schools were out for mon/tues but not for ash wednesday so i guess the pagans got their day also..
no insult intended to pagans..i love everyone

[mercyteapot]

Originally Posted by CHATSDALE

i was working with in an federal office once and we had this lady who had transferred in from up north somewhere, anyway about noon she went to grab something to eat and she came back and said something about how many children she had seen out of school...everybody looked at her and then we told her schools were closed for mardi gras
she had left her children to catch the school bus and they were home alone all day
beomg the little monsters that they were they didn't call her up and let her know about it,
by the way the schools were out for mon/tues but not for ash wednesday so i guess the pagans got their day also..
no insult intended to pagans..i love everyone

I grew up in rural PA and we always got the first day of hunting season off, too. I hate venison and it made me sad to think of those meanies out there trying to shoot Bambi, but I didn't complain about having the day off .

[Spidey's mom]

Originally Posted by mercyteapot

I grew up in rural PA and we always got the first day of hunting season off, too. I hate venison and it made me sad to think of those meanies out there trying to shoot Bambi, but I didn't complain about having the day off .

Our 4-H and FFA kids attend our local Fair and the school district changed the start of school to after the Fair (Labor Day Weekend) because hardly any kids were in school.

We get snow days too. :hatparty:

steph

[fergus51]

Originally Posted by mercyteapot

So are you not from the US, then? The problem with making this accommodation for Muslim students is that Christian students have been expressly forbidden to participate in organized prayer during school hours. While I understand that Islam dictates prayer at specific times, my understanding is that many Christians feel "called" to prayer and may feel that a calling is equal to a dictate. Why are Muslims being given the opportunity to answer their calling when students of other religions aren't afforded the same chance? And no, making it recess wouldn't work. Either the Constitution is interpreted so strictly that it prohibits organized prayer for everyone or for no one. I don't really mind which way it goes, but I do object to preferential treatment when political correctness runs amok.

Recess isn't long enough for other extracurricular clubs to meet and participate in there activities. Plus, when are these kids supposed to have their academics? My son's school is divided into block days where they have extended study in each subject on specific days of the week. This is becoming more popular in many public schools, especially those with a large percentage of college bound students. Breaks are scheduled to maximize the benefit of these blocks. Changing the schedule for the accommodation of religion would not work well at all.

I'm from both (US and Canadian dual citizen), spent part of my school years in both.

The constitution doesn't prohibit prayer in school. Christians pray in school and even have bible study during the school day on their break. The school can't lead them in prayer. It can't mandate prayer. If it wants to make a break at 2pm each day for students to spend as they like (including to pray), that doesn't go against the constitution.

I really don't see how 15 minutes in the afternoon will be enough to ruin a child's education. If it is, then we have BIG problems with our education system. Honestly, these kids could be spending that amount of time taking a bathroom break and no one would care. But, if it's religion then all the old jealousies, divisions and competitive feelings come out. I'm so glad I'm agnostic sometimes

[fergus51]

From the article:

"Students also can be excused for religious holidays, such as Yom Kippur, the Jewish day of atonement, and Good Friday during Holy Week"

Maybe that's partly why that idea was in my head

[mercyteapot]

Originally Posted by fergus51

I'm from both (US and Canadian dual citizen), spent part of my school years in both.

The constitution doesn't prohibit prayer in school. Christians pray in school and even have bible study during the school day on their break. The school can't lead them in prayer. It can't mandate prayer. If it wants to make a break at 2pm each day for students to spend as they like (including to pray), that doesn't go against the constitution.

I really don't see how 15 minutes in the afternoon will be enough to ruin a child's education. If it is, then we have BIG problems with our education system. Honestly, these kids could be spending that amount of time taking a bathroom break and no one would care. But, if it's religion then all the old jealousies, divisions and competitive feelings come out. I'm so glad I'm agnostic sometimes

I'm agnostic, too, but fairness and equity are important to me. I didn't say kids weren't allowed to pray in our schools, I said organized prayer during school hours has been expressly forbidden. Which it has been. It was even mentioned in the article, I believe.

I am not jealous or competitive of or with Muslims. I just shudder at the thought of rearranging a schedule that has been designed to provide public school students with the highest quality education possible to accommodate the needs of organized religion. If the administrators of my son's school tried it, there'd be hell to pay, that's for sure.