[Hellllllo Nurse]

Originally Posted by lizz

Once again, with all due respect Christina ... we don't know.

The report also said that 70 percent of those people were over 50, and the specifically stated the government doesn't know much about them. Certainly there's got to be at least some retirements in there, and some may even be deceased.

So, if the government says they don't know in their own report, I would assume that we don't know for sure either.

Since the gov't doesn't know much about these nurses, I wish they would find out. I know quite a few nurses (in real life, and on the 'Net) who still hold their nursing licenses, but have left nursing. If some of the 500,000 nurses cited by The Dept of Labor are deceased, their licenses would not be renewed, and they wouldn't be counted among the nurses w/ active licensure.


Where I work, eight RNs were just hired. About half are nurses with many years of experience in ER and ICU. They took BIG paycuts to come to work with us. I asked three of them why, they told me working conditions and burn-out. Two of them told me that they will never work in a hospital again, and if there were another job they could do without having to go back to school and make about the same money, they would leave nursing.

I also know several nurses whom have left nursing because they have been disabled by on-the-job back injuries, incurred as a result of poor working conditions. I am partially disabled from nursing back injuries, myself.

I only have anecdotal evidence to support my belief that hundreds of thousands of nurses whom have left nursing, did so because of working conditions, and that the result if a false nursing shortage.

I wish that some of the many nurses planning to get PhDs in nursing would make it their business to find out about these mysterious 500,000 RNs, and base their dissertations on why nurses leave nursing, and what they are doing as an alternative to nursing. Most of the nursing dissertaions which I have read do not explore anything with any relevence to nursing or patients.

Since The Dept of Labor has shown that there are 500,000 currently licensed RNS in The U.S. not working in nursing, doesn't it make sense for them to find out why, and what could be done to bring them back to the bedside, before everyone goes crying nursing shortage and importing foreigners to address this supposed nursing shortage?

[Sheri257]

Originally Posted by Hellllllo Nurse

Since the gov't doesn't know much about these nurses, I wish they would find out. I know quite a few nurses (in real life, and on the 'Net) who still hold their nursing licenses, but have left nursing. If some of the 500,000 nurses cited by The Dept of Labor are deceased, their licenses would not be renewed, and they wouldn't be counted among the nurses w/ active licensure.

True. But with a two year gap between license renewals (at least in my state), and a significant portion of that population being older, I just mentioned it as another possible factor. Especially since that report was done in 2000, and is now four years old.

I too wish we could learn more. I guess you'd have to do a poll of the non-working licensed nurses, and I suspect that would be a substantial undertaking.

There have also been reports of nurses returing to work because of the recession, with spouses being laid off in other industries, etc. Since the report was completed before then, it would be interesting to see what those numbers look like now and if they're the same, or not.

[angel337]

in chicago illinois, where we are truly the melting pot, there are hundreds of jobs for nurses. it is impossible not to find a nursing job here. however, i think it is funny how some nurses complain about the "shortage" and the working conditions but as soon as there is a possible threat of foreigners filling the "shortage" gaps, they become worried. i don't plan to work agency as a full time job because it is not guaranteed income. the hospital i work at is staffed pretty good and we don't use agency that much mainly because people are going staff more than they did say 5 -6 years ago. in 2000 are ED was staffed 50% with agency, which is pretty bad. who are filling the spots? you guessed it. filipino nurses, mexican nurses. i don't have a probelm with it because these nurses are working for the same reason i am...to provide for their family. most of them are paid more than i am because they have prior experience. however, reading these posts make me worry if i have to think about my career not being here in the future. there is already talk about med techs replacing RN's. i am not threatened by foreigners. i feel more threatened by our government and the power that they have to change our livlihoods in the blink of an eye with the poor decisions they make.

[Dixiedi]

Originally Posted by lizz

Actually, when people shop at Wal-Mart, they take jobs away from American workers. But Americans like the lower prices that cheap foreign labor provides.

Are we supposed to throw up trade barriers so Americans can have more jobs and pay higher prices?

Same thing with the Mexican immigrants who work in the California agriculture industry, which supplies cheap food for the rest of the nation. You want to pay higher grocery prices so Americans can have more of those jobs?

Protectionism of any kind doesn't work, and never has.

I did not say we should not buy foreign made goods. I said we should not allow more folks into this country that will take existing jobs from Americans. Yes, mny companies will move abroad. If that's their choice, they can provide jobs for these people "over there." Many American jobs are lost that way and will continue to lost that way. That's business. But we as a nation must do what we can as a nation to keep jobs here and for us.
I know it sounds cruel, but in an ever changing global economy we must take a few steps towards protecting ourselves and limiting immigration is one such step.
Other countries still allow even expect children to work and often (should be always) go to school. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. But in this country, we expect our children to sit on their duffs and party hardy instead of helping the family. We have already set ourselves up for a grand fall when the only jobs left are those that 1) do not pay a living wage or 2) require more education or desire to work than our children have. We have made them soft, now we must protect their ability to earn some kind of living. By not limiting immigration, those "middle of the road" jobs will go to those whose whole family gets out there and works to better the lot.
We must begin to think outside the box, use our cognitive skills to see the whole picture or the Great US will be the "pit stop" instead of the "destination."

[Sheri257]

Originally Posted by Dixiedi

I did not say we should not buy foreign made goods. I said we should not allow more folks into this country that will take existing jobs from Americans. Yes, mny companies will move abroad. If that's their choice, they can provide jobs for these people "over there." Many American jobs are lost that way and will continue to lost that way. That's business. But we as a nation must do what we can as a nation to keep jobs here and for us.
I know it sounds cruel, but in an ever changing global economy we must take a few steps towards protecting ourselves and limiting immigration is one such step.

I guess you missed the part where I also mentioned cheap Mexican immigrant labor working for the California agriculture industry. If you limit immigration, you can bet that food prices will rise since, California supplies half the food for the country, if not more than that.

Of course, it will never happen since nobody wants to pay higher food prices.

[Hellllllo Nurse]

Originally Posted by lizz

True. But with a two year gap between license renewals (at least in my state), and a significant portion of that population being older, I just mentioned it as another possible factor.

I thought of that, but all stats have a margin of error, or allowances for these types of things. But, 500,000 nurses is a whole lotta nurses. Especially, when the shortage is supposedly 400,000.

I know it would be a huge undertaking to find out about the mysterious 500,000 nurses, but it needs to be done.

So much time, personnel and resources have been and are being used for one usless shortage study and program after another.

For example, The Nursing Reinvestment Act. It provides for scholarship money, loans and loan payback, and recruitment.
However, study after study shows that new nurses are leaving nursing sooner, and in greater numbers, than ever before.

Approaching the problem of the "shortage" with recruitment strategies only, is like transfusing a hemorrhaging pt over and over again, without ever finding the source of the hemorrhage or closing the wound.

I wish some of these efforts and monies could be diverted into into finding out where these 500,000 nurses are, what they are doing, why it's not nursing, and what it would take to bring them back.

[Hellllllo Nurse]

Originally Posted by lizz

I guess you missed the part where I also mentioned cheap Mexican immigrant labor working for the California agriculture industry. If you limit immigration, you can bet that food prices will rise since, California supplies half the food for the country, if not more than that.

Of course, it will never happen since nobody wants to pay higher food prices.

I would be willing to pay higher food prices.

Since obesity and poor physical fitness are such a problem in the U.S. How about a summer program for agricultural jobs for highschool students?

I know I'm reaching. I'm sure it would never work.

[Dixiedi]

Originally Posted by lizz

I guess you missed the part where I also mentioned cheap Mexican immigrant labor working for the California agriculture industry. If you limit immigration, you can bet that food prices will rise since, California supplies half the food for the country, if not more than that.

Of course, it will never happen since nobody wants to pay higher food prices.

Those Mexican folks are not called immagrants, they are called migrant. They come over, move from area to area doing work WE will not do. When the growing season ends, they move to the next. These folks are not posing the same problems. There are Mexican folks who come up here, get a green card and stay on. They should be restricted. Severely, just as I mentioned in a previous post.
However, the illegal migrant workers take a hell of a risk doing what they do. It's their choice and well, I don't want to pay more for groceries. I could add that if a migrant worker wants to apply for a green card to do migrant work legally, then it sounds like a good idea to me, That 10 bucks in taxes sure adds up every week. However, the green card should be limited to migrant farm work. Not working? Return to Mexico.

By the way, here is a link that may show you that Ca does not provide as much as you think in the way of feeding Americans. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104730.html

[Sheri257]

Originally Posted by Dixiedi

There are Mexican folks who come up here, get a green card and stay on. They should be restricted. Severely, just as I mentioned in a previous post ...

I could add that if a migrant worker wants to apply for a green card to do migrant work legally, then it sounds like a good idea to me ...

Your post is somewhat confusing. You're saying Mexican immigrants (or migrant workers, if you prefer) should be severely restricted, but in the next paragraph you say it's ok.

The bottom line is that the agriculture industry says they can't compete and keep prices low without them and, consequently, has fought various attempts to limit immigration. If you want to call them migrants, ok, but most stay once they come here.

BTW, that document only lists seven crops. California produces over 350 crops and is the number one producer and exporting state in the country, and has been for 50 years.

[Dixiedi]

Originally Posted by lizz

Your post is somewhat confusing. You're saying Mexican immigrants (or migrant workers, if you prefer) should be severely restricted, but in the next paragraph you say it's ok.

The bottom line is that the agriculture industry says they can't compete and keep prices low without them and, consequently, has fought various attempts to limit immigration. If you want to call them migrants, ok, but most stay once they come here.

BTW, that document only lists seven crops. California produces over 350 crops and is the number one producer and exporting state in the country, and has been for 50 years.

I said it is OK for the illegal migrant workers to take the chances they take. It's their choice and they do not detract from our jobs. However, if they want to apply for a green card to relieve themselves of the chances of getting deported, fine. But, that green card should be ONLY for migrant farm work. No other job. Migrant farm work. Period. Besides, we would them be able to collect a little income tax from them and the condition of their green card be "Migrant Farm work. No work, return to Mexico." We all benefit. If they don't want to pay the income tax to "be legal" then they continue to risk being deported. Their choice.