[zenman]

No problem, eddy!

The point I think Merlyn was getting at is that 6 12's in a row is just purely insane. And no offense but any facility that would regularly encourage this is not only begging for a giant lawsuit when that overworked nurse starts breaking down and makes a big oops, but they are also about the most ignorant business people I have ever heard of. I don't know a nurse alive who could do that kind of schedule and be accurate and at the top of their game.

This was not a regular deal; just strike coverage. True, it was difficult but the main difficulty was just not knowing the hospital procedures and where supplies were kept, etc.. Patient care was fun part.

I better go ahead and mention this now. Zenman, this isn't directed at you or intended to ruffle any feathers. So please understand that and don't kill me. I'm a pretty nice guy if you get to know me. Honest. Okay, back to the program...

That's ok; my Hapkido training keeps me from killing people unless it's necessary...or if I'm in a bad mood!

Can someone explain the sense in working an unoriented or close to unoriented nurse for 6 12's a week, agency nurse with a big fat bill mind you AND paying hmmmm... 32 hours of overtime wages on top of that every week just to try to win during a strike?

I don't think "winning" was the goal here, just keeping the place staffed.

Let me see if I have the math right. Let's say that the agency billed $50 per hour (in strikes they can often go over $100 and usually do, so I'm told. 50 bucks is probably more like the PAY rate). But I'll keep things modest. Now let's see....

$50 x 40 = $2,000 (Regular Time)
$75 x 32 = $2,400 (Time and one half for OT)
Total = $4,400 per WEEK!!!!

Now, let's see.... If they paid their staff nurses generously at say $28 per hour to work a normal 36 hour weekly rotation that would be $1,008. In other words, they could have had almost 4 1/2 nurses at fulltime (36 hours) for the price of ONE scab. This is where I find it ill logic on the part of hospital administration to fight over what are typically well deserved work conditions, pay and support improvements.

Don't know what the hospital was billed but the pay rate was $35 an hour plus 1.5 for OT. A 7 year nurse at this place was making $31.86; now makes $33.79 and in one year will make $36. Mandatory OT was an issue, but I don't think staffing ratios were out of line. At least many of the scabs were wondering what the hell the nurses were striking for.

I am an agency nurse because I enjoy the freedom and the pay, but I would never cross a picket line. Not a chance. I have too much respect for my fellow nurses. As an agency nurse, I'm here to help the other NURSES get through their day, not get in their way when it comes to collective bargaining.

I'll probably never work a strike again; I just happened to be there at the time. Maybe 2.8 million members of a weak profession will someday catch on that global change is needed, not isolated pockets of resistance.

As an added comment NOT directed at Zenman just a comment in general, any scab that works 6 12's for weeks on end better not use the "the patients need to be taken care of and I'm here for the patients" logic. I don't want your overworked craziness working on me. Working that much ONLY puts patients at risk, and points clearly to the REAL "only reason", greed.

Greed...let's see. I had several jobs (at same time) prior to coming here. PRN nursing job at $24 hr (less than the strikers), $35 teaching shiatsu (same as strike pay except for OT) and $65 hr for shiatsu. No greed in my case.

...better not use the "the patients need to be taken care of and I'm here for the patients" logic.

Sure I'll use it! Are striking nurses so stupid that they think a hospital will just let patients suffer? We are in a "caring" profession...or at least used to be. "Striking for patients benefit" rings hollow. Kinda like killing your own kids so many others will live. There are other ways to accomplish the same goals; might just take longer since we are, remember, a "weak profession."

Now, a scab that admits that, I can at least respect to a certain degree, but don't lie about your true intentions, taking advantage of someone elses pretty lousy situation.

You can respect me for being able to be a devil's advocate! As I said before, many of the replacement nurses were trying to figure out why the nurses here were on strike. Plus the union was totally disorganized. Nurses didn't know for sure that they were striking the next day. Now the union has a lawsuit over who is to collect funds...money is missing, etc, etc.. Remember that the union comes first, not the nurses.

It's been proven in many well published studies that nurses who merely pick up ONE SHIFT per week of overtime are more apt to make serious mistakes that could potentially harm patients.

True. Remember that I'm a nurse advocate as I "r' one. Here's some of my issues:

1. I left my momma years ago; I don't need union reps speaking for me.

2. Western medicine kills approximately 200,000 patients a year, depending on who is playing with the stats. If patients were that concerned they would be in an uproar. Same thing would be happening with drunk driving deaths.

3. If I agree to work in a place of busines, I really have no business to tell the boss how to run his joint. I can suggest methods for improvement, but he doesn't have to listen. If you started a business, would you want me to tell you how to run it? Nurses, of course have all these ideas about what they would do if they were running the show. However, most nurses, like doctors have no business sense. If you read "Code Green" you will see that there are bigger issues that need to be resolved.

4. Unions are there to protect their members, even those sorry ass nurses that should have been fired years ago because they are lazy or a danger to patients.

5. What could you do with your union dues? I put $100 a month in mutual funds for 2 years. Forgot about it for almost ten years and wound up with $40,000.

6. How many years do the nurses here have to work to make up for what they lost in wages during the strike?

7. Have you considered that hospitals with unions might have strike insurance?

8. My personal physician told me that one of the union executives here was responsible for the closure of three hospitals on the east coast. Reckon that this was for patients benefit. How many are suffering because of this action?

9. Hospitals that have unions deserve them. If they were smart, they would manage in a manner that would respect nurses. But nurses have to remember that a business, even the Vatican, runs on $$$$$.

That's all for now. I'm required to take a break during my shift.

Oh, yes, during my 12 hour shifts, I never missed a meal or was late getting out of the hospital. So why do nurses with 5 patients grumble and complain about staffing and keep asking for OT to finish up their shift. I've heard this several times right at the beginning of a shift, "Oh, we are gonna be busy and will need OT!" Give me a break!

[eddy]

Zenman -

You have a lot of very valid points here of which I honestly agree with most, not all but a greater portion. I have a lot of similar feelings about the profession as a whole.

Thanks for your honest and well-put reply. I'll have to throw some more into this discussion when I have a moment. I like where this is going.

Happy Holidays!
-eddy

[teeituptom]

You tell them ZENMAN

Many years ago I was a shop steward, And your number 4 was right on the mark. God I did get tired of representing some serious loser nurses in the past. This was back when they would go on smoke breaks and smoke Cannabis. And I had to save their jobs for them. Didnt take long for me to get sick of it all and decided to never work union again.
I have always represented myself since and have done very well for myself in the process.


Unions= Dictatorship of Mediocrity

[cadeusus2004]

THE SCAB
A Poem By Jack London
(1876-1916)


"After God had finished the rattlesnake, the toad and the vampire, he had some awful substance left with which he made a scab."

"A scab is a two-legged animal with a corkscrew soul, a water brain, a combination backbone of jelly and glue. Where others have hearts, he carries a tumor of rotten principles."

"When a scab comes down the street, men turn their backs and angels weep in heaven, and the devil shuts the gates of hell to keep him out."

"No man (or woman) has a right to scab so long as there is a pool of water to drown his carcass in, or a rope long enough to hang his body with. Judas was a gentleman compared with a scab. For betraying his master, he had character enough to hang himself." A scab has not.

"Esau sold his birthright for a mess of pottage. Judas sold his Savior for thirty pieces of silver. Benedict Arnold sold his country for a promise of a commission in the British Army."
The scab sells his birthright, country, his wife, his children and his fellowmen for an unfulfilled promise from his employer.

"Easau was a traitor to himself, Judas was a traitor to his God; Benedict Arnold was a traitor to his country; A scab is a traitor to his God, his country, his family and his class."

[zenman]

And you are trying to say what? That a scab (which is part of the healing process) is worse than a healthcare person who is forever branded as causing harm to the very people they normally care for in order to further their own cause because they have not yet figured out that there are better ways to effect change? Nurses, the largest group of healthcare "professionals" who continue to be the weakest link in the chain! Or were you just trying to entertain us with the works of a wonderful writer?

[cadeusus2004]

A scab, not the clinincal kind, is a person who assists in destroying a job action by crossing picket lines to take their jobs and aid the boss in refusing to abide by fair or reaonable labor paractices. Its a very old term. No "scab" can ever be taken seriously as claiming to be part of the labor healing process, not even if the fetid organizations for which they work try to so indoctrinate them. (By the way, the term does not come from the medical term, but from the disease of phtheriasis "scabies" caused by parasites who work themsleves under the skin and cause infection, and in old days, even death.)
As for Jack London, I am a great fan. Jack was in the IWW, as I am now and have been for years; IU610. Jack wrote many articles about the problems of the laborer and the miserable conditions of labor which, throughout this world, yet exist.
This is a very famous union screed used many times before. I added it not only for humor, but to, as they say, fan the flames of discontent. Ne' cest pas?
As for me, wherever there is a RN, LPN, LVN, Physician, NP, AP or Aide enslaved with unsafe patient loads, forced OT, bad pay and working conditions and the bosses have all the good things in life and these people have little, I will work to my dying day for justice. We have always, always, had to fight for it. Nothing else has ever worked in five thousand years and I think nothing ever will.
As we unionists ask: "Which side are you on? Which side are you on?"
May we enjoy a further collegial dialogue.

Jim Barclay (with too many years in nursing and too many letters after my name to look anything but ridiculous to all but academic colloquial colleagues).

[cadeusus2004]

All Right, Zenman, let's play Truth Or Dare:

1. The average pay of a hospital Registered Nurse is less than $20/hr. In places such as TN, KY, AK, MS, AL, the average pay is less than $15/hr. $27/hr. is high.

2. A RN works on his or her clinical license, not the boss's. In nearly all other businesses I know the boss has a working knowledge of the "floor". (I grew up the child of an industrialist, working my way up from the slag heap to engineering school).

3. In the clinical area, the nurse, not the boss, has to run the show. If the boss makes it too difficult or dangerous, the nurse has a duty to inform the boss how to run his show. (That is why most good companies have 'two-way".)

4. It was unions, not bosses, that brought us the eight hour day, vacations, sick time, maternity leave, retirement and pension, five day week, workplace safety standards, on-the-job injury insurance, the lunch break.

5. We are not talking about making steel belted radials or processing chickens, but about colleagues who must everyday, care for other human beings' lives. There can be no comparison, in this regard, with any other industry. And, healthcare is indeed an industry.

6. Although unionization accounts for less than 15% of the US work force, we must note that in those states where Nursing unions exist, they make over 20% more than in those states which have "Right To Work" laws. They also have better working conditions and benefits. (USDL/BLS)

7. Tenet, a major 'for profit' healthcare provider, in more than a few cases, for every dollar it spends on patient care, it recieves $10 in return? (ANA factsheet),

8. Drug companies run on what is called a "profit margin increase" schedule? That means whatever profit they made the year before must be increased by, commonly, 32%. (Forbes)

9. A point of reason: Companies do business as a matter of contracts for goods, services and maintenance. They also commonly hire their executives and other management personnel on this contractural basis. Each seeks the best deal it can with negotiations. Also, the company is usually a coherent group with the means to make certain of these contractural, and other, decisions. If it offers for contract hire, say, a subcontracting outfit, this outfit bids based on the lowest bid. The lowest bid which can meet the criteria for the job wins, cost overruns excluded, but usually included in the contract- and a bonus for 'on time' completion. This is the way business is done. Why should not Nurses participate in this process by using a union as bargaining agent?

10. Strikes most often occur with breeches or failure to fairly and equitably negotiate contracts. In the healthcare industry this is overwhelmingly the fault of the company's attempt to change conditions or terms thought to be outside the realm of the contract, or with diregard for it. Time and again the National Ombudsmans' Association has sited these.

More if you want it.

[ainz]

Some simple statements: People, to a large degree, create their own reality based on the decisions they make, action they take, and words they speak. If a professional registered nurse is going about the business of providing good patient care, following hospital policies and procedures properly, and adhering to the myriad of standards, regulations, laws, and other rules we in healthcare must live by, then, theoretically, there should be good patient outcomes and enough profit (for the "for-profits") or revenue in excess of expenses (for the so-called "not-for-profits") that everyone should be happy. Thus no gripes from management and they treat the nurses well and no gripes from nurses. So why the need for an intruder into the business such as a union?

[zenman]

Oh, cadeusus2004 "Truth Or Dare!" Your points are correct and well taken and I agree, however, you and others continue to waste time proving each other correct. And what has significantly changed in the 30 years I've been in the business? The weak profession is still lost. Have you found the solution yet?

[cadeusus2004]

Zenman,

Well, in the last thirty years things have indeed changed, in many ways, for the better, because nurses made these things happen.

1973- 5,000 chicago nurses struck for better pay anhd conditions. The average hospital nurse was making about $5/hr. They won and got better pay and conditions which set forh standards for other nurse actions which produced the same results.

1975- Vanderbilt University becomes the first university to actively seek out new male baccalaureate nursing students from the ranks of discharged combat and hospital corpsmen.

1979- The ANA resolution that all nurses should pursue a BSN resulted in a huge increase of diploma RNs re-entering school and getting that BSN.

1981- Most diploma schools of nursing, seeing the wave of new students going into baccalaureate programs, instituted heavy college course requirements into their curricula.

1983- The ranks of the Nurses at most university hospitals join the state nurses' associations and give themselves bargaining power the same as AFSCME, NAGE and SEIU. The ranks of the Massachusetts NUrses Association grows from less than 5,000 to over 15,000 by 1990. The average wage of a hospital RN in 2003 is $25K.

2002- ANA passes its new Nurses' Code of Ethics which expands the collegial role of RNs. By 1993 thirty-eight states are union represented.

One of the many reasons things have changed and are changing is that the female is being raised with a greater sense of self confidence and political power. This has translated itself into a more assertive RN. Males, on the other hand, account for only about 5% of the RN population, but, through recent inclusions by high school guidance counsellors and college recruiters, may result in a greater percentage. Unfortunately, the males have not been as politically active.

I, too, have been a union rep and I know about what you went through. Union members can be the most irresponsible and stupidly acting people I know. How many times have I made an utter ass out of myself trying to defend them.

Here is what I say: "The union is You. It ain't your momma or your daddy. It ain't your girlfriend or boyfriend, so don't try to screw it. It only works if you work it, support it, feed it. You only get out of it what you put in it. The union will put its ass on the line for you if you put your ass on the line for the union."

Struggle for power usually comes as a matter of organization. For entrepeneur and those in regions of self empowerment where organization would be an impediment, it is a different story.

But the world is largely made up of labor that is mass labor and it has to be that way. A factory full of entrepeneurs is worthless, and field full of truck farmers is useless, a workshop full of subcontractors would be maddening and financial suicide. Tomatoes wold cost $10/lb and Chevrolet would cost $100K.
Organized mass labor has brought the greatest boon in consumership in history.