[Silverdragon102]

Moved to the Canadian forum for further input

[janfrn]

There was an attempt in the early 90's to phase out the LPN in Manitoba. It wasn't the success they expected and they had to backpedal a lot. As fiona59 says, the current plan is to make the LPN the bottom rung on the nursing ladder, with the BScN then the MScN and PhD above.

[linzz]

I would say that RPN employment in hospitals may vary depending on the area, but it is unlikely they will be phased out in Ontario or anywhere where the BSN is the requirement for RN licensure because it would cause a huge shortage. Most provinces in Canada will not allow RPN or RN education to be done by any private colleges, at least not in Ontario and this is turn reduces the number of seats in government funded colleges. In addition, RPN's have a fairly wide scope if they are diploma grads which includes initial assessments, IV starts and monitoring, catheters and on and on. That said, I have to say that there are far more opportunities for RN's.

[loriangel14]

Originally Posted by unitek1963

I disagree, Lori. Here in the U.S., the LPN is, in fact, being "phased out" of the acute care setting, which is unfortunate, but happening nonetheless. I would bet my last that it won't be long before Canada follows.

Regards,

Michael

Pn programs here are expanding and improving and there are plenty of jobs. I doubt this would be the case if it was going the way of the dinosaur.

[linzz]

I am aware of which hospital system loriangel14 works in and they do indeed hire RPN's, and always have, so she is simply being honest. In that regard though, there are some hospitals in the GTA in Ontario that are all RN but they are few however I still am not really sure what the new RPN role is going to be as things are changing quickly with the newer RN requirements.

[loriangel14]

Hey linzz, I forgot you and I have talked before.How's it going?


Yea you are right. Mount Sinai and Sick Kids are two that don't hire RPNs. We were talking this at work the other day and I asked my coworkers if they had seen any impact from the new RN requirements but they said they hadn't seen any yet. Our facility is about 50/50 when it comes to RN/RPN ratios.

[unitek1963]

Agreed. PN programs here is the States are also expanding and improving and there are plenty of jobs. However, those jobs have gone from being largely acute to largely LTC. This did not happen overnight, but it DID happen, as I believe it will happen in Canada as well...eventually.

Regards,

Michael

Originally Posted by loriangel14

Pn programs here are expanding and improving and there are plenty of jobs. I doubt this would be the case if it was going the way of the dinosaur.

[loriangel14]

I disagree. The role of the RPN in Ontario is growing, with employers using RPNs in ever expanding roles. Most acute care facilities in my area are very RPN friendly. The trend here is growth not dying. Remember this is Canada, not the US. Things are different up here.

[Fiona59]

Originally Posted by unitek1963

Agreed. PN programs here is the States are also expanding and improving and there are plenty of jobs. However, those jobs have gone from being largely acute to largely LTC. This did not happen overnight, but it DID happen, as I believe it will happen in Canada as well...eventually.

Regards,

Michael

I hate to beat you over the head with facts but here goes. In Alberta there are approximately 5900 working LPNs. The majority of whom work in ACTIVE treatment. This means acute care, ICU, dialysis, orthopedics, the OR, pretty much every unit of the hospital except the NICU. Our practice has expanded into community health, the provincial psychiatric hospital, and the prison system.

We are not a dinosaur here, but a valued and respected (for the most part) nurse.

By the year 2020, CNA is predicting that PN education will be the entry point for all nurses. They also forsee that these will be hospital based nurses with the BScN taking more of an administrative role.

If we were to phased out our province would be short over 7000 nurses at this point in time.

Don't tar all on North America with what has happened in your country.

[unitek1963]

Originally Posted by Fiona59

Don't tar all on North America with what has happened in your country.

This discussion has nothing to do with nationalism. I'm sorry you felt the need to play that card.

I will, however, speak to your facts, as they reflect what is happening in Canada. These same "facts" seemed immutable in America 20 years ago as well.

In the 1980's, LVNs were also plentiful in the acute care setting, ICU, dialysis, orthopedics, the OR, pretty much every unit of the hospital INCLUDING the NICU.

In 2008, the majority of LVNs have been moved out (not willingly) from the hospital system; all 70,0000 of them.

In the 1980's LVNs were ALREADY in community health, home health, the psychiatric and prison system.

In the 1980's it was predicted that LVNs would grow exponentially, with upper-level degree nurses taking on more administrative posts.

LVN "schools" have grown, but they are now viewed a stepping stones into the opportunity-heavy RN field. I don't see Canada as "following the American lead' anymore than you do, but I DO see them following the historical progression of nursing.

So, as you can see, I don't place a great amount of credence in "predictors." I look at historical trends in nursing. NOT in historical trends in nursing in the U.S., or the U.K. or Australia, or France, or even Canada, but in historical nursing trends in the First World.