[Cdn_Psych]

Dplear, what are you talking about? AFL-CIO is not a union, it is an AFFILIATION of unions.

Secondly, why do you think it is detrimental to nursing professionalism to associate with a "TOTALLY blue collar" organization like AFL-CIO? It makes you sound like a snob to me. Do you feel that you are somehow "better" than a tradesperson? It seems to me that nurses would be better off if we were more like those "TOTALLY blue collar" unions - I can't imagine them continuing to tolerate the outrageous and unsafe (for nurses and patients) conditions under which nurses ROUTINELY work.

And just how "professional" are we anyway? I think we would all agree that Medicine, Law and Dentistry all qualify as professions. Every doctor, lawyer and dentist I ever met works on a fee for service basis (not an hourly wage). They get to control their own practice and determine whether or not they will accept you or me as a client. Do nurses get to do that?

I remember a case here in Canada where nurses in an ICU were overwhelmed and refused to accept any more patients because it was unsafe with the load they already had. They attempted to act as professionals and take control of their own practice by declining to accept the new patients. They were subjected to disciplinary action by the hospital. They grieved the discipline and it was UPHELD by the arbitrator on the grounds that as employees of the hospital, the nurses could not be
INSUBORDINATE and refuse to accept patients (even if, in their judgement, it was dangerous to do so). The arbitrator said they should obey and grieve. So much for being "professionals"!

Remember, to the hospital, the doctor is an asset to be cherished because the doctor brings money into the hospital. The nurse, however, represents a liability - a COST! So nurses are (from the hospitals' point of view) a drain on resources and should be treated as a cost to be cut - replaced with cheap labour at every available opportunity.

Real professionals don't work mandatory overtime. Nor do the overwhelming majority of those "TOTALLY blue collar" unions. Can you say the same about nurses?

Originally posted by Dplear
UAN now affiliated with the AFL-CIO, whats next? An afflilation with the UAW? You have just blown your chance to be seen as a professional by linking uop with a TOTALLY blue collar union. I used to belong to the AFL-CIO when I was a pipefitter many years ago, and now I am proud to say that I do not need them at all, I can negotiate for my own wage and package. Another thing to remember is the orginized crime ties to the AFL-CIO, they still exist. Does this mean you are going to tie in your pension plans with them and their wonderful managemanet of those fyunds with disappearing monies?

<snip>

[Dplear]

SO you have never met a dr who is an employee, well I know of many docs who are employess just the same as you or me. Take Kaiser Permenete out in Ca., those docs work for the hospital, not themselves. or at least in this case the HMO, they recieve a salary the same as I do. Here in Texas the ER docs are EMPLOYEES ofvompanies that supply md's to ER's. Yes they make money on patients but to them it is a form of profit sharing. They have no control over how many patients they may see in a given shift. As for mandatory overtime, here in texas there is No such thing as that, It has been upheld here that since it is a right to work statde, I do NOT have to work longer than my shift. It is up to the hospital to provide staffing in case there is not enough nurses to work.

Would you consider a CPA as a professional/ I would sure hope he is, and I know of many that work for large corporations as well as small companies.

Docs and dentists that work for the government, they get a salary and not a fee base income, are they then not Professionals. It is attitudes like yours that will stop nursing from being taken as a profession, until you consider yourself a professional, (as you obviously sound like you don't) the public and more importantly your co-workers and tema members will not either.

(and I did belong at one time to the AFL-CIO, as a pipe fitter...it is truely a union, and as for the pension plans, when you affliliate yourself with them it is encouraged that you invest in their plans and we know their track records of money handling and honesty.)

[Cdn_Psych]

Hi Dplear,

I can't speak to the situation in Texas, having never worked or visited there. But I do know the situation where I am and from what I read in the media and on the net, it's pretty much the same elsewhere.

Doctors here (in Canada) work on a fee for service basis. Nurses don't. Doctors here have control over their own practice - they decide when they'll work, where they'll work, whom they will or will not accept as a patient and whether or not they have a safe & reasonable workload. Nurses don't.
Nurses (except in a few VERY unusual cases) are employees of hospitals (or other agencies) and despite their ambitions to be considered professionals (and despite the lip service paid to that "professionalism" by governments, hospitals and quasijudicial bodies), they are not, *IN ACTUAL PRACTICE*, treated as professionals.

Actions speak louder than words, and despite professed respect for nurses expressed by governments, hospitals and quasijudicial bodies, let's look at what REALLY happens.

Try refusing to accept another critically ill patient because you cannot safely care for the ones you already have. Despite its professed love and respect for nurses, the hospital can and WILL punish you for attempting to act as a professional by not accepting more than you can safely handle. Furthermore, that punishment will be upheld by a board of arbitration.

Despite its professed love and respect for nurses, the hospital will seek to cut costs on our backs and to replace us with retrained kitchen workers or other unlicensed staff because deskilling the workforce saves on salaries. Meanwhile, the administrators who make these decisions get huge salaries and perks with obscene severance packages when they move on to the next hospital. Yup, they sure do respect our professionalism.

And governments? They respect and value us as professionals, right? Suuuuurrrree they do. Nova Scotia is a case in point. Nurses there make a maximum of about $23 per hour (Canadian funds - about $15 in US funds). The nurses rejected the government offer and would be in a legal strike position in a few days. The government demonstrated its respect for the nurses' professionalism by pre-emptively eliminating their right to strike by passing a law making it illegal for them to strike, punishable by huge fines. Furthermore, the nurses are denied the opportunity to seek redress by an independent arbitrator. Instead, the government gives itself the right to unilaterally impose a "collective agreement" (talk about an abuse of the language!) on the nurses with whatever terms, conditions and wages it cares to set. As a final gesture of respect for the professionalism of nurses, the law stipulates that it cannot be reviewed by any court.

Nova Scotia nurses are now threatening to resign en masse. So far, quitting hasn't been made illegal, so I guess they're not truly slaves yet. Yup, the government sure respects nurses as professionals.

In British Columbia, nurses sought to pressure for better salaries and working conditions by taking all the breaks to which they are contractually entitled (no working for free) and refusing to do overtime. The BC government passed a law forcing them to stop their "job action" and stop refusing overtime. Whether this is legal or not is really irrelevant - the actions speak eloquently about the esteem and respect in which the professionalism of nurses is held.

Here in Ontario, some hospitals have threatened to charge nurses with patient abandonment if they refuse to work overtime. The Premier of the Province is on record as saying that "Nurses are as obsolete as hula-hoop workers" (a remark which he has never withdrawn or apologized for making) and has publically identified nurses as being obstacles in the way of health care "reform" - more respect for our professionalism. Oh yes, and while busy trying to get himself and the other politicians a 42% raise (yes, that's right, FORTY-TWO PERCENT!), the Premier has declared that nurses can have only 2%.

The fact is that, pleasant fantasies and comforting daydreams aside, beyond meaningless lip service, nurses are neither respected nor recognized as professionals, a point which you seem to have some difficulty comprehending.

Nobody dares to treat skilled tradesmen, auto workers, doctors, dentists, lawyers, accountants or just about any other identifiable group in the same shabby way that nurses are treated.

As Ann Landers likes to say, wake up and smell the coffee.

It's time nurses started getting more assertive and acting like other unionized workers. That will improve our situation. Nobody respects a doormat. Organizing, standing up for ourselves and demanding that things change will make a difference.

Elitist delusions about being viewed as professionals will not help, nor will smugly looking down our noses at those "TOTALLY blue collar" unions do anything to help us.

Most of those "blue collar" types make more money than you or I do. They get more respect too, and that's a fact - whether you choose to recognize it, or not.

[Barbara Rose]

Whoa!!! Who says in Texas there is no mandatory overtime? Better check again. If there is not an RN to relieve you of your patients then you can't leave. That equals mandatory overtime. Yes, the hospital should have to furnish the staff but if another RN doesn't come in, then you have to stay or you will be abandoning your patients. Please check your nurse practice act! It happens often in the state of TExas just as it does in other places. If your hospital doesn't or hasn't practiced this, great and perhaps we would all like to come to work their but, I have practiced in NE Texas for 20 years and have had to work mandatory overtime. So, this blanket statement won't work. As well, if it wasn't a problem in Texas, why is TNA addressing this issue and why has it come up at each of the town hall meetings? Sorry, Texas is pretty good but not perfect!!!!!!!!!!

[-jt]

<I think we would all agree that Medicine, Law and Dentistry all qualify as professions. Every doctor, lawyer and dentist I ever met works on a fee for service basis (not an hourly wage). They get to control their own practice and determine whether or not they will accept you or me as a client. >

and THOUSANDS of those docotrs, lawyers, & dentists are organized in unions - mostly branches of the SEIU - which is an affiliate of the AFL-CIO. Here's a little piece from a NY docotr's UNION newsletter:

"Kings County Restores Wrongfully Laid-off Doctors

This June, KCHC laid off nine of its doctors as per-session physicians. However, when the New York City Health and Hospitals Corporation laid-off these doctors, it did not realize that they are all per-annum physicians. This improper layoff broke two important agreements in the contract. First, HHC must lay off physicians with respect to their classification, which dictates that all per-session doctors in a department be laid off before any per-annum doctor. Second, if a per-annum doctor were to be laid off, then HHC must give the UNION one month's notice.

Doctors Council immediately grieved the improper layoffs. As a result of pressure from the UNION, the HHC RESTORED all nine doctors and compensated them for the time they were laid off.

Doctors Council is working to ensure that these doctors are fully compensated and restored to their position prior to the layoffs. In addition, Doctors Council is currently grieving the layoff of two KCHC per-session doctors who were laid off without notice to the Union. As a result of this grievance, one of the doctors' lines has been restored. The UNION is currently grieving payroll's withholding one of the doctor's salary for the time he was laid off.

If you are or know of a member of Doctors Council who was improperly laid off, contact us immediately. We will continue to grieve any improper layoffs until we are convinced that every layoff was carried out in accordance with the provisions of the Doctors Council UNION contract.

HHC Announces Severance Package

As we went to press, Doctors Council learned that the Health and Hospitals Corporation will offer a severance package.........."

[-jt]

<Here's a little piece from a NY docotr's UNION newsletter: >

And heres some more. Incidentally, this MD/Dentist's union is an affiliate of the AFL-CIO too.

"Delegates: Lifeblood of the Union

In Doctors Council, the delegate is a key person., serving as the critical link between the union, its members, and hospital management. The importance of their role is evident when one considers the specific responsibilities of delegates.

As the on-site representative of Doctors Council, the physician-delegate keeps the members at his/her facility informed about the union and keeps the union leadership and its staff informed about developments at the facility. The physician-delegate keeps the members informed about management's activities in the facility. The delegate can also encourage members to become involved in the activities of the union at his/her facility (e.g. JPCs). And delegates may also serve on various union committees and influence union policy.

It bears mentioning that those who serve as delegates to Doctors Council receive little remuneration for the work that they do save the satisfaction that they are helping to improve the terms and conditions of employment for their fellow members.

Below is a listing of HHC facilities and Mayoral Agencies and their delegates:

Bellevue:

Stephen B. Feldman, M.D.

Barry Liebowitz, M.D.

Robert Maslansky, M.D.

Mary Jo Messito, M.D.

Milutin Mijuskovic, D.D.S.

Belvis:

Ingrid Allard, M.D.

Child Health:

Elaine Friedlander, M.D.

Robert Lee, M.D.

Correctional Health:

Harold Appel, M.D.

Dental Health:

Donald Nadel, D.D.S.

Gary Peters, D.D.S.

Wallace B. Thompson, D.D.S.

Dept. of Health:

Alan S. Dunn, M.D.

Roberta E. Leon, M.D.

J. Lim, M.D.

Lilla Lyon, M.D.

Dept. of Sanitation:

Borisse Paulin, M.D.

East New York:

Cheryl Worrell, D.M.D.

Gouverneur:

Francis Friedhoff, M.D.

A. Stephen Passloff, M.D.

Guillermo Seco, M.D.

Karin Siljestrom, M.D.

Celia Tiangco, M.D.

HRA:

J. Lynch, M.D.

Kings County:

Eugene Becker, M.D.

Kildare Clarke, M.D.

Dyadand Hegde, M.D.

Rosemary Jackson, M.D.

Melvin Curtis Mahoney, M.D.

Joseph Marcus, M.D.

T. Ramachandran, M.D.

Dorian E. Roye, M.D.

Hervey Sande, D.P.M.

Yogendra Saxena, M.D.

Howard Stark, M.D.

Warren Tanenbaum, M.D.

Elmer Twente, M.D.

Lincoln:

Walker Bacon, D.D.S.

Mental Health:

Howard Owens, M.D.

Morisania:

Richard Levy, D.D.S.

OCME:

Mark Flomenbaum, M.D.

Sydenham:

Flize Bryan, M.D.

Woodhull:

Michel Antoine, M.D.

Richardo Galdamez, M.D.

Yousef Mahadin, M.D.

Nora Nieva, M.D.

Celia A. Quinnonez, M.D.

Sundaram Raju, M.D.


Why Doctors Must Unionize:

Medicine, once an art, has become just another business—big business with big profits. As a result, doctors’ compensation, working conditions and their methods of diagnosis and treatment are being dictated by corporate administrators, causing frustration, despair and a sense of helplessness among dedicated health professionals This "sea change" did not occur with the participation of doctors. On the contrary, doctors were engulfed by powerful business forces, which recognized that huge profits could be made by running our nation’s healthcare system like a corporation and by treating doctors and other healthcare professionals as commodities.

Indeed, doctors now find themselves in precarious economic and ethical situations where medical decisions are being made by corporate business policy rather than appropriate medical practice.

Doctors have never been formally trained to deal with this new economic order. Our professional organizations are prohibited by law from dealing with the "economics" of our profession. Their main functions are essentially geared toward education and credentialing.

So the question for us becomes—Who can handle our economic issues? For salaried doctors, the answer is clear—UNIONIZATION. A union’s expressed purpose is to ASSURE THE PROTECTION OF IT'S MEMBERS INTERESTS. It NEGOTIATES physicians’ wages, their hours, their benefits and assures doctors’ due process.

UNIONS DO NOT DIMINSH OUR PROFESSIONALISM. Rather, they ENHANCE it.

The notion of a professional in medicine has certainly changed. As a profession today, we are invisible. Are we to continue to stand idly by, powerless, as others dictate how we provide essential medical care?

Is it professional to allow entrepreneurs to dictate medical diagnoses and treatments? Is it professional to allow them to place gag orders on us, require drive-through mastectomies and one day post partum hospital stays for new mothers? Is it professional to ask patients to diagnose themselves prior to going to an emergency room, or allow substitution for doctors’ prescriptions as corporate policy?

As we are economically assaulted, we are being forced to deny our training and forsake our medical oaths in order to earn money for others. The era of denial is over. The concept that we are treated as professionals is a myth, and at this point, believing such, is destructive to regaining our power and authority over medical decisions. Although powerful both economically and politically, our adversaries are not doctors, they do not possess our skills to heal.

If we organize, we will be a force to be reckoned with. We can become a countervailing power, regaining the respect, the dignity and the power over our own profession. As healthcare professionals, we are trained to heal and protect our patients. We must take bold steps if we are to regain control of our profession.

My union -- the Doctors Council -- represents over 3,000 employed doctors. We have negotiated contracts since our inception in 1973. We are also familiar with labor and management as both adversaries and, in the best sense, partners.

Physician unions should not be feared by management, rather they offer administrators hope for instilling new programs, new initiatives, and improving patient care within their organizations.

Sadly, we are witnessing the undoing of our professions. We have spent a great deal of time and resources to learn and master our art. These days, our time and effort translate into what a corporation considers expensive labor.

In an effort to run health care as a profit-oriented business, our education and expertise are not considered important factors in determining compensation.

But it is important. We are in the healing profession, where what we know and how we are trained to think and act makes a difference; often THE difference.

We cannot turn our backs on thousands of years of study and evolution that has produced the daily life-giving miracles that society takes for granted.

We are interdependent healers who relieve suffering and we stand on the shoulders of those who came before us. This is our time on the watch.

It is for these reasons that we must organize. At this, the close of the second millenium, are we to cast aside our accomplishments and knowledge and revert to the dark science of medieval times?

I find it difficult to believe that the saving of life and the relief of suffering is now a corporate business. In the corporate healthcare world, those who deliver the care are not to be consulted, but rather managed. They are taught to limit care, quiet their voices suspend their knowledge and serve to create a healthy profit for others.

It is a malignancy of the spirit to extract a profit by denying care. It is a deal not only with the devil but with death itself. Let us fight this as well as we have fought other diseases. This entrepreneurial obsession is as deadly as the diseases we have vanquished before.........."
http://www.doctorscouncil.com

[-jt]

"Doctors' Unions -
When North Jersey doctors joined a union in November of 1997, they became one of the latest groups of physicians throughout the country banding together to fight the managed-care industry. "The revolution has begun," said Barry Liebowitz, an official with a doctors' union in New York City........

"The next five years will change the next 20 years," said Dan Lawlor, organizer for a doctors' union in Washington, D.C. "More physicians will join unions and start to prevail. The political movement is under way." Lawlor's union represents 10,000 doctors in California, Arizona, Illinois, Oregon, New York, Florida, and Connecticut.....

The move to organize doctors into unions and other groups has gained momentum since 1997 and now includes physicians in Florida, California, Texas, Arizona, Washington State, Washington, D.C., and Massachusetts, in addition to New Jersey and New York. Shortly before 500 North Jersey doctors joined a union in the Fall of 1997, 100 pharmacists and 200 South Jersey doctors also joined a union............

About 150 doctors were recruited in Tucson, Ariz. in November 1997 by the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees, said Lawlor, an official of the union. In Texas and California, about 1,400 podiatrists have recently joined the National Doctors Council, a branch of the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees based in Washington, D.C..........

In its petition to the NLRB, Local 56 in Pennsauken, Pennsylvania said independent practitioners should have the right to collective bargaining. The union argues that these physicians are, in effect, employees of managed-care companies, because the insurance companies dictate the terms of patient care.......

"This is a major case of great magnitude that will have an impact on other cases," said Liebowitz, president of the Doctors Council in New York, the nation's oldest doctors' union, which has 3,400 members and was founded 24 years ago to represent doctors who are not independent practitioners. The Doctor's Council has negotiated contracts for 5,000 independent doctors in Arizona, Illinois, Massachusetts, Hawaii, and Texas. "This is big time."........"
http://www.bergen.com/healthw/docs21199712210.htm

"The Union of American Physicians and Dentists Wins Big! 800 doctors, 550 with teaching appointments at UCLA, USC, and Charles Drew Hosp, vote for unionization!
Also, visit our website http://www.uapd.com to review the following articles:

Clinics doctors, dentists unionize: San Jose Mercury News, January 27, 2000

Doctors Getting Organized: San Jose Mercury News September 12,1999

Who Needs a Doctors Union? : Dallas Morning News July 18,1999

Angered by H.M.O.'s Treatment More Doctors Are Joining Unions : New York Times Feburary 4, 1999

When Doctors Join Unions: by Grace Budrys, Cornell University Press, C 1997

FTC Letter

The Union of American Physicians and Dentists Helping Physicians

Afraid to Join a Union?: Physicians News Digest February 1997........"
http://www.uapd.com

"The First NATIONAL Union for Doctors Is Formed -
October 24, 1996, will be memorable as the beginning of a revolution--a national effort by health care providers to take back their profession from big business and return quality and caring to the treatment of the American health care consumer. At a press conference held at the New York Podiatric Medical Association, twelve health care professionals expressed their personal views as to the importance of this new Guild, Local 45 of the Office and Professional Employees International Union, AFL-CIO........"
http://www.opeiu.org/physicians/L45annc.htm

Doctors' unions will protect patients against abuses
by Dr. Glenn Flores, pediatrician at Boston Medical Center and an assistant professor of pediatrics and public health at the Boston University School of Medicine........

"Every day in my inner-city pediatric practice, I see children and parents who have no choice but to confront homelessness, violence, hunger and poverty. William McGuire, the CEO of United HealthCare Corporation, had a stock-option package valued at $61 MILLION $$$ in 1997. I would love to see McGuire sit down with one of my families and explain why it is reasonable for him to earn tens of millions of dollars in one year, while they can be denied basic medical care and health insurance. Until that meeting happens, our only hope for protecting people from the greed and abuses of managed care may be the unionization of doctors on behalf of their patients......"
http://www.progressive.org/mpflor699.htm


So can we now put the erroneous "professionals don't join unions" mantra to rest? Hey Barabara, how come its "professional" for MDs & Dentists & Podiatrists to join unions in the great states of Texas & Arizona, but NURSES there don't think they themselves are professional enough to deserve the same protection & voice in their own workplace and practice? Anyway, this thread was about the UAN & its historic note to affiliate with the AFL-CIO. Just pointing out here that there is nothing unprofessional about what we are doing in standing together with other organizaed nurses across the country to take back our profession for ourselves & the American public. Its the PROFESSIONAL thing to do.

[lubdo]

hooray and three cheers for all of the courageous nurses who wised up and joined the union. For those critics who say it is "unprofessional" for us in this profession to organize ,I say you must have gotten used to having that boot up your ass and now you know no better and like it.Wake up.. I like nursing, but I am what I am . I punch in at the beginning of the shift much like Laverne and Shirley at Shotts Brewery. I have ineffectual charge nurses and managers who give preferential treatment to those she likes and makes everybodys life a living hell. I work shift work and have not one iota of negotiating power in terms of my benefits , salary or work environment . Why shouldn't nurses organize? The teachers have a very strong union that has bolstered their profession and given them a way to improve their profession. As far as teaming up with the AFL-CIO, a "blue collar" union which critics think below them in some way I say BS. My uncle was a business agent and my father was a union electrician they both worked hard for their families so their children could go to college and better themselves, we have 3 lawyers , 2 cardiologists, a stockbroker to name a few in our family all thanks to that "blue collar worker" who worked shift work , but through the union recieved a good wage and benefits and was able to do this for their family. So hoooray for the union . Please come to Indiana we need you

[-jt]

Please come to Indiana we need you>


Check with the UAN.
http://www.UANnurse.org
I believe there may be some discussion about developing a shared-services arrangement with a nearby state association UAN member that does have union services which can be offered to nurses in Indiana. But I always get those "I" states mixed up! The New Jersey Nurses Association does not provide collective bargaining but NJ nurses wanted it, so their state association recently went into a partnership with the New York State Nurses Assoc/UAN to provide those union services to NJ nurses who want it. The nurses are members of NJNA and NYSNA is their local union. This is probably going to be a growing trend with the UAN & other non-union state associations that want it.
(NJ state motto is "NJ & you - perfect together". We just took that literally.)

[Jenny P]

Hi Julie! It was so nice to meet you in D.C. and finally put a face to your name. I wish I could have met a few more "allnurses.com" people while I was out there, but I'm still not the most mobile person around- as you could probably tell.
Julie was a delegate to the UAN House of Delegates. The UAN is the collective bargaining part of the ANA. I was a delegate to the ANA House of Delegates; and this past week was phenomenal in the history of the ANA. The House of Delegates for the ANA voted in some major structural changes that allowed the UAN charter to meet the AFL-CIO rules re: mandatory membership (for union members); AND (for those of you who don't like unions) also put in changes to develop the Workplace Adocacy Programs (WAP) for right to work states and other workplaces where there isn't collective bargaining.
I just got home from the ANA convention tonight (Sunday); and am slightly brain dead from sitting so much; but I wanted you all to know that EVERY SINGLE NURSE at the convention worked together in the House of Delegates and we came out with some awe-inspiring changes. NO ONE shot us in the foot; there was no "eating of our young"; everyone worked together as a team to get the work of the House done to help nursing move forward! (Well, we did manage to talk some of the process through until even Roberts' Rules made sense; but that may have been necessary to do in order to get to where we needed to go!)
I am just so thrilled at how smoothly everything went through!!!!!!
Thanks, Julie, for being involved in the UAN. And now that I'm home; I realize I didn't get a picture of both of us together! I like the backside of the camera better than the front.