[NRSKarenRN]

© 2008 HealthLeaders Media

Students with No Teachers

Nursing school faculty shortages are forcing providers to find creative ways to train their prospective nurses.

Five Minute Consult
Patricia Starck, dean of The University of Texas School of Nursing at Houston, has devised an unconventional solution..nursing faculty shortage: Recruit retired physicians as classroom instructors..

[calliesue]

I am glad that people can still go to nursing school. I just wonder how much they are paying these retired mds as opposed to how much they are paying nursing instructors.
Any idea?
I do think the hospital idea was pretty cool.

[scribblerpnp]

I haven't read the article, but surely there is someone out there who finds this a little strange. Is it in the best interest of the students to have physicians teaching nursing courses? I'm fine if they want to teach non-nursing, but of they are teaching nursing courses, how is a nursing student supposed to learn how to be a nurse? Are physcian's that up with the nursing process and nursing diagnosis? I think less enrollment with actual nursing faculty would be better than too much too fast.

The problem isn't with the amount of nurses, it is with the amount of nurses willing to work in hospitals.

[elkpark]

I can see maybe teaching physical assessment skills (since those are the same whoever's doing them), but I would hate to see physicians teaching nursing students. It wouldn't be allowed under the current BON rules in my state, and I would hope those rules wouldn't be changed (I'm sure the NLNAC, CCNE, and AACN would have a few choice words, also!) Nursing students should be taught nursing by qualified nurses.

[NRSKarenRN]

Makes perfect business sense ....glad the retired RN's off doing something else they love rather than working for peanuts.


Five Minute Consult

Starck: We don't have a nursing faculty shortage. We have a shortage of qualified nurses who are willing to work for faculty salaries when the hospitals are paying so well. The RPO is an excellent source of the type of faculty that we want: those who are wise, experienced, eager to help students, and very committed.
The physicians teach in the physical assessment lab. Students are taught to do a head-to-toe physical exam and take a history. The physicians are there to help them do the exam correctly. We also use iPods for the lectures and a lot of video. From their very first semester, students are having dialogue with physicians. They are learning to communicate, and they are learning not to be intimidated. They learn the information a physician wants if they need to call a physician in the middle of the night. We think that's one of the best aspects of the program-this interdisciplinary education

[elkpark]

Lots of things make business sense, but aren't necessarily a good idea for other reasons.

My father, for example, is a retired physician who is "wise, experienced, eager to help students, and very committed." He would be very interested in participating in a program like that. However, he also believes that nurses, like small children, should be "seen and not heard" -- that they don't need to know or think about anything on their own because their job is to follow the physician's orders without question. His attitude about this is fairly subtle -- he doesn't announce this to you when he walks into the room; it takes time and experience to realize that that's his view and it's not going to change. Is that someone we want teaching nursing students about interdisciplinary communication and working with other professionals? I know that's just one example, but I grew up around many physicians who are now "retired physicians" and that's a very common attitude in that demographic group. Is that an attitude we want conveyed in the nursing school classroom to impressionable students?

[traumaRUs]

What about paying MSN and doctorate educated nurses a competitive wage. I would love to teach but can't take the pay cut.

[Love_2_Learn]

Of course it was many, many years ago, but when my Aunt Sara was in nursing school it was in a hospital and all their class instructors were physicians. It was a diploma program because at that time nursing was not taught in colleges. She graduated in 1941...! I don't know about who did their teaching in the hospitals themselves but I remember her saying that the more senior nurses (the ones in their 3rd and last year) would help the first and second year students. I believe they went to classes in the mornings and worked in the hospital the rest of the day and evening. They worked regular shifts so by the time they graduated they were quite ready to work well. My sweet aunt's claim to fame is that she administered the first penicillin injection given in the state of Georgia. She said there was a special book that they recorded the injections in and it was hand carried to the state capitol for safe keeping after it was full of entries.

Most certainly nursing has come a gazillion miles since then and we live in a whole new world. I suppose my post is just for a little history of physicians teaching nurses. I'm sure we can learn from everyone we come in contact with but like elkpark said about her dad, not everyone with great knowledge and the desire to share it have our best future interests at heart even if they believe they do. The times are changing and back when my aunt was a nurse the attitude was very military-like where the nurses had to stand up when the doctor entered the ward or nurses station. They were colleagues but not true partners in care as we hope we are striving for as time goes by.

I agree that faculty needs to be paid for the amazing and invaluable contribution they make to our profession. It's a crying shame really. And yes, advanced practice nurses would be great teachers if they could be paid what they also rightly deserve!

Sorry for such a long post.

[minpin10]

As an Educator I can't believe my eyes. I think there is some room for MD's to help us out but not to replace nursing educators. My belief is that if we stop eating our young then we might have a few nurses that want to teach. Your thoughts?

[Long Rider]

I work as an FNP and as an ADN sophomore nursing instructor. I love teaching. Absolutely love it. Granted, I would probably work PRN as an FNP anyway, since I worked so hard to get it, but I HAVE to work extra to make ends meet.

Our school only has class for the fall and spring semesters, in large part so the instructors can work during the summer. We have to. Sure, our instructors are on the top of their game (well, at least most are) because we are in the field during the summer, but the student's have lost momentum. It's almost like starting from scratch. I strongly suspect that the students would learn better, and we wouldn't loose as many in the fall if they didn't have to try to build lost inertia at the same time they are trying to learn complex patho, and med information. Alas, the simple fact is, our small community college cannot afford to pay the instructors a12 month contract.

BTW, one of the reasons some nurses may not consider teaching is because sometimes the nursing instructors are treated with open scorn by more and more staff nurses and sometimes the students themselves. I know it's just a sign of the times, but the attitudes I have had to face as a nursing professor have been, er, somewhat... tacky... to say the least.

I know some of it is being the FNG, but I wasn't expecting to bump heads with as many as I have over the past year. Such is life, eh??

Another thing to consider when thinking of the shortage. Clinical sites. We pinned over 100 students this year. That means we had around 120-140 students needing a clinical site at any given time. That was just our sophomores, the freshmen class had a little over 100. Don't forget the LPNs, some where in the neighborhood of 80. That's 300-320 nursing students in one community college, each one needing one to three patients. Sure as the boomers age, we will have more sites and more patients for the students to "play with", but by then, it will be too late.

It's a shame I'm addicted to taking care of others and teaching, otherwise, I'd be an electrician like my dad