[TNNURSE]

Originally Posted by SunStreak

It may be there on paper but when push comes to shove, it isn't going to hold water....didn't you say that they had already fabricated "reasons" to dismiss you?
That's the way "at-will" states work it.....

well......no...it really isnt the way it works. You need to investigate the ratios of how courts take this.The court system leans towards the employee 99 % of the time. The problem is that these HC facilities usually either make the employee feels so horrible they are willing to forget things..or they are embarassed.But...no sunstreak....there you are wrong.In the cases that have valid concrete proof ,..then they side with the employee.Do they return to their previous job?Generally no...bc....very few would even want to.
The majority of nurses really want to do a good job. But there are a few ...that just dont care.....they are callous and irresponsible. In your thread I always read such underlying hostility...and I really do not understand it.This thread is about nurses that have been the victim of retaliation,...and if this isnt something that interests you....or that has touched you..I dont understand "why" you are here. I may be wrong...but from your posts that I have read you have rarely supported a fellow nurse on these threads. And ...to thoroughly understand what happened to me...Id have to give details.I have no intention of doing that.This post is about all kinds of retaliation...not just retaliatory discharge.It is about patients rights...employment rights...etc.Most everyone here is interested in either sharing their stories and how they handled it...or can give insight on how they feel the nurse can work their way thru a problem.This thread is really not about my case...bc....I know the strength of my case ...and my life doesnt depend on whether I win it or not.....but...my ethical belief system makes it a huge issue that I go forward with it. If you have any positive posts that youd like to share with anyone here then please do...bc...so many great nurses have shared their different perceptions on this and made me think about other things at stake...and I am very appreciative of that.

[GLORIAmunchkin72]

TNNURSE, you say that:" The state nurse pratice acts and the public protection acts...actually make it illegal for us to do/say nothing.In some states it is criminal and nurses can be prosecuted in a "clause " of negligent homicide if we say nothing."
That's all very nice, but what good is it if the "law" won't stand by you?. This is their chance to prove that they mean what they say. Good luck to you!

[RNS for Unity]

12/16/05
As nurses we need to stick together, try unionizing the entire USA the CNA is making just that attempt. United we stand, divided we fall. When the Nurses group marched on Wahingotn D.c. and select RNS spoke to the Congress, the congressmen recommended that the RNS join/organize unions to get their employnent needs met.More than ever we as all citizens of the USA need unions for our protection, from unfair labor practices and our job protection.

Happy Holidays,

RNS for Unity

[Nicky032605]

I think you are all correct when you say that the nursing shortage is manufactured and the reasons for it. This thread has been very educational. A real eye opener on so many levels. Thank you!!!!!!!!

[TNNURSE]

gloria....I dont know all the answers....but I do know that when you say nothing...it is ethically wrong.Its like ..if you were at a store and were watching it being "held up" from the outside of that store.Should you call 911?Yes.Why..??? bc ..it is the ethical, moral and legally right/correct thing to do.It is sad when HC facilities try intimidation, and any other tactic to force a nurse to back down from their statements.I share your concerns ...believe me.But...we have to step up and say something .I honestly fear that until some major event occurs and a catastophic event occurs that shocks the media bc of everyones silence that nurses will still fear retaliation and not step up...and it will be due to self preservation.Can anyone tell me about how you find info on labor unions for nurses????

[CseMgr1]

I find the above posts very moving and frightening.

We are considered dangerous to the Powers That May Be, if we want to do what is best for our patients and effect change.

JFK, RFK and MLK also wanted to effect change and look what happened to them, for they were considered dangerous, also.

Think about it.....

[jodyangel]

Yep its frightening. People who go into nursing for the Most part do so because they CARE. And to know there is No job security and No real voice when these wrongs are done......is just mindblowing.
I was fired wrongfully and had to have 6 weeks of punishment with NO income before christmas. Why? Because the hospital can say whatever they want to unemployment and thats that.
Believe me, there is little a nurse can do about it. I'm glad I just started the new job, but that doesnt help me with the lost weeks of pay.
I really feel we need Unions...but how will that ever happen??

Originally Posted by CseMgr1

I find the above posts very moving and frightening.

We are considered dangerous to the Powers That May Be, if we want to do what is best for our patients and effect change.

JFK, RFK and MLK also wanted to effect change and look what happened to them, for they were considered dangerous, also.

Think about it.....

[CseMgr1]

It's just a fact that our country is not run by our government, but rather by big business and like-minded individuals who will stop at nothing to keep their warped ideals of The American Dream viable...no matter the cost. You go along with their crooked little games, and the sky's the limit. Buck the System, and you're dead meat. Try and fight them, and you wind up with NOTHING, after your lawyers present their bill and walk away smelling as bad as the people you have just tried to sue...and even richer to boot.

[TNNURSE]

I too share evryones concern. I have definitely suffered bc I did the ethically correct thing. I lost my job, my family lost their health insurance, we lost my retirement, my emotional peace of job security. I was a nurse who had never had any form of PIC. I have excellent reviews.I had never had a verbal or written warning in all my years at this hospital. I had nothing but promotions, and excellent evaluayions at my HCO.Then I did the correct ethical thing,...and voiced my concerns over unsafe pratices.Hours later...I was fired.Is that "temporal proximity" enough for you? This week I am to meet with various members of my old hospitals risk management/legal dept in an effort for them to complete their "internal investigation". They have lost my trust...obviously. Its kinda like....bite me once -shame on you. Bite me twice-shame on me! After terminating me...what kinda message did that send to my coworkers....who had voiced the same concerns.....but were not willing to take those concerns to the departments of my HCO who could actually do something about it? I dont know if this a true "internal investigation"...or if it is just a sham.But...I have been bitten once ...so how much faith should I realistically give this HCO?

[TsunamiKim]

This is how it goes: they, in this case Risk Management, call a meeting; you show up with the intention of discussing your serious concerns over a patient safety issue. First of all they will outnumber you as you will probably face several of them while being expected to present your information to them on your own. They will try very hard to convince you that no one among your colleagues shares your concerns, making your allegations seem bizarre, outlandish and unbelievable. They will insist that everything is now OK and reassure you that they have “investigated” the issues you raised very thoroughly. While their tone will be condescending, their so called “investigation” will be nonexistent or purely a cosmetic Band-Aid; any proposed remedy will be really minimal and simplistic.
There is nothing about what they are likely to tell you that will convince you that they have done anything at all to correct the problem. You are supposed to be totally taken in by this fiasco and satisfied with the result! It is an insult to your intelligence because nothing they say makes much sense and you know nothing has actually been resolved. They will question your motives to put you on the defensive; of course you are understandably angry over your dismissal, blah! blah! blah! They will fain sympathy and suggest you move on as if they are genuinly concerned for your future. Do not let them discuss anything regarding your conduct or being fired at all this is a risk assessment inquiry into the incompetence of another Nurse.
With me the Compliance Line supposedly “investigated;” their solution to a multitude of serious negligence allegations was to “just keep an eye on things.” While it was OK for my supervisor to lie to remove me from my job for the blasphemy of daring to call her “unnecessarily inflexible” and scaring the office staff by standing with my arms folded and my hands on my hips it was unreasonable for me to expect accountability from OR Management for serious offences. They had knowingly instituted negligent understaffing policies that endangered the wellbeing of multiple surgical patients over an extended period of time, not to mention their vindictive lies to sabotage my job and my career. Not as heinous as that dreadful utterance I had made over the phone and the seriousness of my “aggressive” body language! No they would “just keep an eye on things.”
They did not discuss measures they had taken to improve safety, protocol changes to protect OR patients from abandonment or staff from future abuse; not necessary and besides they had done nothing. Even if they had made positive changes they would not have told me about them as it might have given me the impression that I was in the right. Trivialize the allegations, make the whistleblower feel isolated, like no one on the staff shares their opinion and they will soon understand that calling for an investigation was futile. All they needed to do when I made my follow up call was humor me; I was just one of the idiot staff, easy to dupe. When I kept insisting on a proper in depth review of my case and the retaliatory practices they began refusing to take my calls. Then I got a letter from the strong-arm gang in their legal department telling me to cease all contact except through their department; obviously that’s where the Hospital keeps their biggest industrial capacity shredder!
When they tell you no one else in the ICU shares your opinion and they are simply incredulous hearing your accounts, be prepared for some really good acting they must practice for weeks to get the expression just right. Forewarned is forearmed: try to get that petition together to show that there is a strong consensus of opinion among the Nurses on this patient safety issue. If you are not well prepared it will be a very humiliating and infuriating experience. Maybe I am being cynical after my personal experiences I can’t help it.
I lost faith in Unions as our Union appeared so week. They were unable to obtain my personal files or my pay files, unable to bring even the slightest hint of fairness to my hearings. I could never get basic information or answers from them, like when two minor rule violations had suddenly appeared in my file. How could I hope to prove that these documents, shown to me for the first time 15months after I was fired, were fabricated if my own Union had no record of just when they had surfaced? They misled me into binding Arbitration and then there was the useless Lawyer experience.
There are strong Unions that dare fighting for reasonably working conditions for Nurses. This fight is vital to Nurse retention and recruitment as well as essential for improved safety in patient care. They will question your motives; of course you are understandably angry over your dismissal they will say.There will be numerous links when I post my Petition and I know many of them will be useful to you. While adding all the links is taking time I think it is worthwhile as it may help others facing retaliation like yourself. This was one of the little gems I found on the net; I hope it gives you a laugh: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/9007/newsletter_archives.html Hope you all like it.
I have posed a question on another thread Re: Blowing the Whistle on Deliberate Understaffing and Toxic Managerial Practices. It questions how long someone should remain continuously scrubbed into surgery; no answers as yet. I hope that some of you might visit this other thread and comment on the question. Good luck, and keep your spirits up,
Fair Winds & Following Seas, Kim.