[dzadzey]

Recently, we were gathered in a meeting held by human resources regarding attempts by a national labor organization to unionize nurses in our area. Now, if anyone can use good union representation, it's nurses. Provided, of course, the union is more interested in serving the needs of the nurses and their patients rather than lining the pockets of union leadership.

And it seems to be the latter in this case. The union is using both grass-roots organizing and what are called "corporate campaigns". The former is well and good as the potential union member has a say in the matter through a vote for unionization. The latter, however, does nothing but honk me off. Corporate campaigns, as they are called seem to be aimed at pressuring management into signing 'neutrality' and 'card check' agreement, either of which will prevent the employees at a given facility from being able to vote on unionization. Any union victory achieved by this means would be Phyrric, at best. The new, and involuntary, union members would be bitter and resentful at not having any say in the matter, and management would be disinclined to negotiate in any constructive way with the union. The ultimate result would seem, at least to me, to be a decline in patient care as nurses disgusted by the process left the profession, leaving those remaining to carry an even heavier burden, leading to more nurses leaving the profession...a vicious cycle.

The unions president has gone so far as to say to health care organizations, " We will unionize your workers or we will destroy your reputation." This would seem to indicate a less than whole-hearted support of nurses, and more about securing his own power and prestige. I have contacted the union in question, both by e-mail and snail-mail regarding this issue and have, thus far received no response. Apparently, they lack the courage of their convictions. If they want to unionize, put it before the nurses. If they can secure better working conditions, pay and benefits for the employees...If the union can constructively engage management to raise everybody's boat and help us provide the best possible patient care, there will be a union. But if they want to engage in the skulduggery and reputation assassination that these 'corporate campaigns' seem to imply, they can fold it five ways and stuff it where the sun never shines.

Any thoughts?

[burn out]

So far my experience with unions has been the same as yours. If they could show me how they could make nursing better I would be the first to sign up but none of them have been able to show me what they can do for me that I can't already do for myself. So far all I have seen from the union is another layer of management trying to sustain their own survival by taking union dues from me. I do not see where they can make my life better but I can see how they can make it worse .

I think there has recently been new legislation passed at either the state or federal level making it easier for unions to enter the workplace. Please correct me if I am wrong but I was thinking that now just by siginig a union card showing that you are interested in more information about the union, that they can now say that is your vote for the union. Before just because you signed a union card did not mean you had to vote that way but with new legislation I beleive that has changed. So don't sign anything unless you are sure you want your vote to count for the union.

[Miss Mab]

[quote=burn out;2179697]So far my experience with unions has been the same as yours. If they could show me how they could make nursing better I would be the first to sign up but none of them have been able to show me what they can do for me that I can't already do for myself. So far all I have seen from the union is another layer of management trying to sustain their own survival by taking union dues from me. I do not see where they can make my life better but I can see how they can make it worse .


See, I don't get this... I am not entirely blanket----yay unions!, at all---but here in CA it was the CNA that pushed so hard for our ratio laws that were vehemently opposed by lawmakers and hospital lobbys and you can't deny that has made nursing "better'' for most of us here. At least compared to some of the horror stories I read on here regarding that day in and day out.

Some people will say, but wait, those ratios are at the expense of losing UAP and to some extent that may be true but not to nearly the degree that union naysayers make it out to be. I think you'd be hard pressed to find many med/surg or, in my case, ER nurses in CA that wish to go back to "the way it was." I'll keep my max 4 patients, thanks.

Again, I'm not unilaterally for unions in every case but to say that, at least in CNA's case, that they haven't improved nursing and done something that you simply can't do for yourself, well, just wanted to throw my two cents in....

[burn out]

[quote=Miss Mab;2179716]

Originally Posted by burn out

So far my experience with unions has been the same as yours. If they could show me how they could make nursing better I would be the first to sign up but none of them have been able to show me what they can do for me that I can't already do for myself. So far all I have seen from the union is another layer of management trying to sustain their own survival by taking union dues from me. I do not see where they can make my life better but I can see how they can make it worse .


See, I don't get this... I am not entirely blanket----yay unions!, at all---but here in CA it was the CNA that pushed so hard for our ratio laws that were vehemently opposed by lawmakers and hospital lobbys and you can't deny that has made nursing "better'' for most of us here. At least compared to some of the horror stories I read on here regarding that day in and day out.

Some people will say, but wait, those ratios are at the expense of losing UAP and to some extent that may be true but not to nearly the degree that union naysayers make it out to be. I think you'd be hard pressed to find many med/surg or, in my case, ER nurses in CA that wish to go back to "the way it was." I'll keep my max 4 patients, thanks.

Again, I'm not unilaterally for unions in every case but to say that, at least in CNA's case, that they haven't improved nursing and done something that you simply can't do for yourself, well, just wanted to throw my two cents in....

Where I work the nurse/patient ratio is not any different than what you had to fight to get in CA. If unionization is what works for CNA that is great but I do not think that what is best for CNA's is exactly the same as what is best for nurses. If I were to join a union it would have to be one specifically for nurses and one the would advance the nursing agenda. Personally I would not want to belong to a automakers or miners union anymore than I would want to belong to a CNA's union. Sorry if I stepped on toes but a Nurse is not the same as a CNA.

[Miss Mab]

Oh, didn't realize anywhere else in the country it was mandated law re: nursing ratios (i.e. 1:4 ER, 1:5 med/surg) Good to know some facilities may be doing it just to do it. It doesn't sound like that's the norm though.

BTW, CNA--California Nurses Association...

Again, I respect anyone's right to NOT be union. Fight the good fight

[Snickett]

Union Bad, Me Speak for Self Good

[VegRN]

I have worked with only unionized facilities and at first I loved it. Even told people that I would not want to work anywhere else. Loved the job security, feeling that I had a voice, etc but now that I have a couple of years under my belt, I have changed my opinion.
In unionized places, it is very, very hard to get incompetent people out the door. It takes years of documentation and persistence. I have seen so many bad nurses and even more bad CNA's continue to keep their jobs in spite of the crap job they do. Meaning that they are constantly nowhere to be found, scream, yell and intimidate coworkers, refuse their assignment and more importantly provide unsafe care. It is very scary to see this go on and stressful to have to deal with incompetent coworkers that are being protected by their union. I can see how in some ways the union has made pt care better (pt ratios, pay) but in some ways pt care is far far worse.

Yes it is a union, but it is also a business. They are making money and have a powerful incentive to get into a hospital and "represent" nurses.

[firstyearstudent]

I always hear that union hospitals have bad nurses because the union protects them from being fired. But I've seen plenty of bad nurses at non-union hospitals also. Some of these places have poor morale, poor retention and hire just about anyone.

[danigirl58]

I have worked in both unionized hospitals and non-unionized hospitals. I can tell you this when i was working in a non union hospital I truly missed my union. Unsafe working conditions, not getting breaks and being told I do not necessarily need one or being told that no matter what I must stay once my shift is done is utter crap. I like the security of having someone (or a group of someones) back me up if there ever came a need. I like having base wage's set out a head of time so that i know what I am worth to all hospitals not just one.
I know many American's are very anti union and maybe thats a result of past experiences. The union I belong to is run solely by nurses that were voted in by nurses. If we are unhappy with what what is happening in the union at the next vote in then those rotten apples can be booted out.
No matter what a union is only as strong as those that support it. A single person is rarely ever able to make a stand/statement however thousands can.

[HM2Viking]

Originally Posted by Danigirl58

I have worked in both unionized hospitals and non-unionized hospitals. I can tell you this when i was working in a non union hospital I truly missed my union. Unsafe working conditions, not getting breaks and being told I do not necessarily need one or being told that no matter what I must stay once my shift is done is utter crap. I like the security of having someone (or a group of someones) back me up if there ever came a need. I like having base wage's set out a head of time so that i know what I am worth to all hospitals not just one.
I know many American's are very anti union and maybe thats a result of past experiences. The union I belong to is run solely by nurses that were voted in by nurses. If we are unhappy with what what is happening in the union at the next vote in then those rotten apples can be booted out.
No matter what a union is only as strong as those that support it. A single person is rarely ever able to make a stand/statement however thousands can.

You have said exactly what I have said. The union is as strong as the members make it. Organized influence on terms and conditions of employment leads to better long term results for the members as a whole.

My challenge to those who complain about unions is to look at the overall pay and benefit structures for communities/states with a strong labor presence versus the states with a weaker labor movement. In general the quality of life for workers and families are improved with better schools, better pay/benefits, and in general the health outcomes are better.

I think its both naive and short-sighted to expect that management wiull always be kind and fair. Managgement will treat me with dignity and respect. Unions do provide protections from arbitrary and capricious managers.