[NurseKevin]

Originally Posted by grannynurse FNP student

I love it when someone attempts to justify the huge healthcare expenses as a result of a 'free market system'. Why not just come out and say it, greedy is what drives the free market saystem. Scrrew your neighbor and make a few more bucks doing it, it is all right. You are making the almighty $$$$$$$$

There is a major difference in our believe systems. I believe that healthcare is a right, unlike you. You believe that if you cann't afford it, you get what you deserve. Nice idea but it will not float for much longe. Think Bush got Part D passed out of the goodness of his heart. Nope. And while it does pay the drug companies well, that will change too. Time is coming when the baby boomers will finally realise that they really have not put enough away, to pay their healthcare cost.

Grannynurse

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need?

[worldtraveler]

On this subject-I see no reason why members of Congress, the Senate, VP Cheney and President Bush should have their Federal Healthcare Insurance subsidized by people for example earning Minimum wage at a 7-11 store or some small restaurant. Its not that these Folks don't want to buy Healthcare Insurance, they simply cannot afford it. In my area(miami,florida), a private non group Blue Cross Blue Shield Policy would run easily over $1000 a Month for a family of 3-4. The working poor does not have this kind of $$$. And at the same time, Millionaire Politicians, as mentioned above, are receiving Very Nice Insurance subsidized by Workers barely breaking the Minimum wage. Even if they are earning more, like $11-$15/hr, after the rent, food, Children's needs, there is NO money left over for health insurance-not at the rates these Insurance companies currently are charging(non group-private plans). What's wrong with this picture? A Millionaire like Cheney (and there more of these extremely wealthy politicians on Both sides) worth Millions receives subsidized healthcare when he could WEll afford to pay while a Construction worker(non union-the kind mostly found in wage cheap Florida) busting his Hump in the Hot Sun and receiving NO insurance while subsidizing a Multi-Millionaire like VP Cheney? Fair, Need ?

[NurseKevin]

That is a lovely emotional appeal, but a family of three or four making minimum wage does not have a tax burden, or at least a federal one. If they pay taxes in, they get it back.

[grannynurse FNP student]

Originally Posted by worldtraveler

On this subject-I see no reason why members of Congress, the Senate, VP Cheney and President Bush should have their Federal Healthcare Insurance subsidized by people for example earning Minimum wage at a 7-11 store or some small restaurant. Its not that these Folks don't want to buy Healthcare Insurance, they simply cannot afford it. In my area(miami,florida), a private non group Blue Cross Blue Shield Policy would run easily over $1000 a Month for a family of 3-4. The working poor does not have this kind of $$$. And at the same time, Millionaire Politicians, as mentioned above, are receiving Very Nice Insurance subsidized by Workers barely breaking the Minimum wage. Even if they are earning more, like $11-$15/hr, after the rent, food, Children's needs, there is NO money left over for health insurance-not at the rates these Insurance companies currently are charging(non group-private plans). What's wrong with this picture? A Millionaire like Cheney (and there more of these extremely wealthy politicians on Both sides) worth Millions receives subsidized healthcare when he could WEll afford to pay while a Construction worker(non union-the kind mostly found in wage cheap Florida) busting his Hump in the Hot Sun and receiving NO insurance while subsidizing a Multi-Millionaire like VP Cheney? Fair, Need ?

What you and I fail to see is the free market system. Bushie loves this market, he gets to hand out contracts to his friends and they get to make money off of us and our military. And we should not forget, his War on Our Addiction to Middle Eastern Oil. Now we are just reaping what we have sowed. And like I have posted, when the Baby Boomers enter the system in greater numbers we are really going to be in trouble, big trouble.

Grannynurse

[pannie]

Yep, it's someone else's fault, right? Poor planning; lack of personal responsibility; not budgeting = Bush and Cheney's fault. Typical "Poor me. I'm powerless."
I see Clee1 is not letting anyone take his/her power.
If denigrating our president really makes you feel better, then have at it. But ultimately the person responsible for you IS you.
I was military of that era, too. I certainly don't expect (and really, really don't want) VA medical care for life for serving a few years. Ridiculous!

[grannynurse FNP student]

Originally Posted by pannie

Yep, it's someone else's fault, right? Poor planning; lack of personal responsibility; not budgeting = Bush and Cheney's fault. Typical "Poor me. I'm powerless."
I see Clee1 is not letting anyone take his/her power.
If denigrating our president really makes you feel better, then have at it. But ultimately the person responsible for you IS you.
I was military of that era, too. I certainly don't expect (and really, really don't want) VA medical care for life for serving a few years. Ridiculous!

Well my father put in 28 years. And a brother put in 22 years. And they are entitled to everything they have gotten and a few things that have been taken away from them. It is the fault of a Republican Congress, a Republican President and a Republican Vice President. Heck, they have sent a 1/3 of our National Guard to Iraq, with equipment, bought them back, and left their equipment there. And they do not have the foggest idea of what has been left in country. I love to see your attitude and your self sacrifice pay my own way, when your medical bills add up. Or you become disaboled and unable to work. And have to live off of SSDI.

Grannynurse

[NurseKevin]

Originally Posted by grannynurse FNP student

Well my father put in 28 years. And a brother put in 22 years. And they are entitled to everything they have gotten and a few things that have been taken away from them. It is the fault of a Republican Congress, a Republican President and a Republican Vice President. Heck, they have sent a 1/3 of our National Guard to Iraq, with equipment, bought them back, and left their equipment there. And they do not have the foggest idea of what has been left in country. I love to see your attitude and your self sacrifice pay my own way, when your medical bills add up. Or you become disaboled and unable to work. And have to live off of SSDI.

Grannynurse

Even though it is off the topic of the thread

Hasnt been a republican president or congress for the entire last 22 and 28 years. I think that a step back and critical evaluation of the politics for the last 3 decades, and I would suggest that you go back to the teens and 20s to see where all the "entitlements" come from and if they were meant to be permanent or not.

[NRSKarenRN]

Entitlement program: A Glossary of Political Economy Terms - Dr ... The beneficiaries of entitlement programs are normally individual ... The most important examples of entitlement programs at the federal level in the United ...
www.auburn.edu/~johnspm/gloss/entitlement_program

Entitlement Programs The key to understanding entitlement programs lies in the key word - entitle. It means you have the right to receive them, assuming you meet certain ...
www.he.net/~altonweb/cs/downsyndrome/entitle.html


Federal entitlement programs more costly - US News - MSNBC.com Three growing entitlement programs -- Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security -- consumed nearly half of all federal spending in 2004.
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10609044/from/RL.2/


Listing of all Entitlement programs:
Documents :Committee on Ways & Means :: US House of Representatives :

[NurseKevin]

<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">[quote]* For workers with average incomes, the government collects the equivalent of 6 weeks worth of their salary in Social Security taxes every year. [29]

[grannynurse FNP student]

Originally Posted by NurseKevin

Even though it is off the topic of the thread

Hasnt been a republican president or congress for the entire last 22 and 28 years. I think that a step back and critical evaluation of the politics for the last 3 decades, and I would suggest that you go back to the teens and 20s to see where all the "entitlements" come from and if they were meant to be permanent or not.

Kevin, I do not have to go back to the teens and 20s. I began nursing school in the middle 60s, when children were held responsible for their parents hospital bills. Costs that bury them under an avalanche of debt. One of the things that Medicare was passed for was to obsolve these adult children from the responsibility of their parents healthcare debt. Medicaid and the welfare system were brought into being for the same reasons, to help those less fortunate, to provide medical care. It was never intended to be a generational welfare state and Medicaid was not as widely accepted, for many years, as it is today.

I paid full FICCA for more then ten years. By full, I had no employer contribution from my employer. I have collected SSDI for fifteen years. I lost my IRA, 47% to pay fines and penalties for early withdrawal because I tried to save my condo from foreclosure. I receive Medicare. I don't have any retirement program because mine was wiped out, through no fault of my own. Yes, Medicare and SSDI are essential an entitlement program. An entitlement program that without its existance I would be living on the street. Perhaps that is where people like me belong rather then taking precious tax money from working nurses.

Grannynurse