[NurseKevin]

Originally Posted by andrew39

MRIs Per Million People
UK - 1
Canada - 1
Germany - 3
USA - 11

CT Scanners Per Million People
UK - 4
Canada - 7
Germany - 12
USA - 27

Canadian radiation oncologists suggested the waiting time between diagnosis and treatment for their patients be two weeks or less. Average waiting time for people with breast cancer between diagnosis and treatment: 61 days. That's over eight weeks.

For every one doctor that immigrates to US from the Canada, 19 immigrate from Canada to the US. For every nurse that immigrates from the US to Canada, 15 Canadian ones leave for the US.

66% of Canadian doctors and nurses say they are loosing confidence in the system.

Canadian specailists estimate that 81% of surgeries waiting times are longer than necessary.

We need a link bud...I appreciate your support and all, but we need a link so that certain others do not think that the info is "made up"

[grannynurse FNP student]

Originally Posted by andrew39

MRIs Per Million People
UK - 1
Canada - 1
Germany - 3
USA - 11

CT Scanners Per Million People
UK - 4
Canada - 7
Germany - 12
USA - 27

Canadian radiation oncologists suggested the waiting time between diagnosis and treatment for their patients be two weeks or less. Average waiting time for people with breast cancer between diagnosis and treatment: 61 days. That's over eight weeks.

For every one doctor that immigrates to US from the Canada, 19 immigrate from Canada to the US. For every nurse that immigrates from the US to Canada, 15 Canadian ones leave for the US.

66% of Canadian doctors and nurses say they are loosing confidence in the system.

Canadian specialists estimate that 81% of surgeries waiting times are longer than necessary.

I once escorted a physician, from Great Britain, around various hospitals in New York City. He was struck by the fact that every hospital had it's own CT scan (they were brand new back then). I asked him how many there were in his country. He explained about the health trust. And how they had just one. Yes, there was a wait for a CT scan but he felt it was not unreasonably long. Or that it unnecessarily endanger patients. I had to explain to him, that in this country, competition breeds large bills.

As for the Canadian nurses and physicians leaving their country, I suspect the reason is the same for hospitals spending all that money on the newest toys, money. The pay is better, on our side of the border, for both physicians and nurses. so, it should come as no surprise, of the migration south.

Grannynurse

[NurseKevin]

Originally Posted by grannynurse FNP student

I once escorted a physician, from Great Britain, around various hospitals in New York City. He was struck by the fact that every hospital had it's own CT scan (they were brand new back then). I asked him how many there were in his country. He explained about the health trust. And how they had just one. Yes, there was a wait for a CT scan but he felt it was not unreasonably long. Or that it unnecessarily endanger patients. I had to explain to him, that in this country, competition breeds large bills.

As for the Canadian nurses and physicians leaving their country, I suspect the reason is the same for hospitals spending all that money on the newest toys, money. The pay is better, on our side of the border, for both physicians and nurses. so, it should come as no surprise, of the migration south.

Grannynurse

The pay is better because of the free market system. The government ruining...er running everything will botch that up for us though.

[grannynurse FNP student]

Originally Posted by NurseKevin

The pay is better because of the free market system. The government ruining...er running everything will botch that up for us though.

I love it when someone attempts to justify the huge healthcare expenses as a result of a 'free market system'. Why not just come out and say it, greedy is what drives the free market saystem. Scrrew your neighbor and make a few more bucks doing it, it is all right. You are making the almighty $$$$$$$$

There is a major difference in our believe systems. I believe that healthcare is a right, unlike you. You believe that if you cann't afford it, you get what you deserve. Nice idea but it will not float for much longe. Think Bush got Part D passed out of the goodness of his heart. Nope. And while it does pay the drug companies well, that will change too. Time is coming when the baby boomers will finally realise that they really have not put enough away, to pay their healthcare cost.

Grannynurse

[pickledpepperRN]

Didn't someone say salaries are one of the reasons our healthcare is so expensive?

[grannynurse FNP student]

Originally Posted by spacenurse

Didn't someone say salaries are one of the reasons our healthcare is so expensive?

Salaries for physicians and upper management yes. And all their demands for all those expensive tools they say they need. Nurses are still asmong the most poorly paid. I think one of the reasons physicians do not make as much in other countries is because, in large part, their education is state funded, without expectation of repayment. Just service.

Grannynurse

[andrew39]

The information I got was from Market Driven Health Care by Regina Herzlinger (a Canadian herself) and Miracle Cure by Sally Pipes. Sorry I didn't mention that in the first post.

[pannie]

Clee1: I'm afraid there aren't many people who have the financial discipline to do what you do regarding medical costs. We'd all be so much better off if they did. Most financially savvy planners are doing exactly what you're doing.
NurseKevin, you bring up VA medical care and I agree 120%. Our paper did an expose` of the VA hospital here. A promised clean-up is in progress, supposedly. I certainly hope they've cleaned up the bodily fluids found on gurneys, wheelchairs, walls, etc. Now, firing those nurses sleeping on duty is proving problematic (civil service or government employee or union related?). I haven't trusted the bureacracy of VA since they refused to verify the service status for all the PTSD clients they were treating. They didn't even verify if they were IN the service. An eye-opening read is Stolen Valor by BG Burkett and Glenna Whitley. The more PTSD clients they treated, the more the bureaucracy would grow. Totally disgusting and it lead to a huge fallacy about "damaged Viet Nam veteran".
I think it's pretty telling that our Canadian friends come to the states for their non-emergency care AND they've registered their company in Nevada. The tax saving is unbelievable. It's a huge company so very big savings.

[clee1]

Originally Posted by pannie

Clee1: I'm afraid there aren't many people who have the financial discipline to do what you do regarding medical costs. We'd all be so much better off if they did. Most financially savvy planners are doing exactly what you're doing.

Pannie, it isn't so much "savvy" as it is enlightened self-interest.

I took a good look at what I was getting for the $$$$, and decided I could do better on my own. Add to that I was able to negotiate a 15% better base pay, because I was declining group health insurance. I have my own life and STD insurance; that was another negotiated 5% base pay increase. My retirement is already funded (I worked a long time in the IT industry at outrageous rates of pay, and put HALF of my annual salary away for retirement) so I again negotiated better pay d/t declining dubious "benefits" provided by my employer. Nothing gets taken out of my check except taxes.

Look at the "health insurance" mess. You pay X dollars out of your check for it. You are required to use an approved "list" of providers. You have to pre-clear all non-routine visits/expenditures, and outrageous "co-pays" go along with each time you use a "benefit". Then, to add insult to injury, after all is said and done, 70% of the time, you get a letter from the insurance company stating that thus-and-so charge was "disallowed" or "in excess of plan benefits", quickly followed by a MDs bill along with a demand for immediate payment! To heck with all that hassle! For as little as I use hc services, I'll just pay for the routine ones out-of-pocket.

If people would really PAY ATTENTION to their own affairs, they would be able to gain back the power they've abdicated to others: government, insurance companies, etc.

[worldtraveler]

I have used the Healthcare system in Canada as well the systems in Europe. A One Party Payer system like Medicare is but one solution. HSAs(health saving accounts as offered by Bush is Not the Solution as many needing Health insurance do not have the funds to buy these high deductable plans in the first place. Many posting on the shortfalls of the Canadian system I doubt have ever used it in reality. I used it in the Military and Merchant Marine. All of my winter neighbors here in Florida are Canadians and you won't find one them making the complaints some mention here Nor could you find one that would trade their system(sure thing) for our mismashed non standard situation. We cannot say we have a "System" (excluding medicare) here in the USA. Websters unabashed defines a system as "a group of interacting , interelated elements forming a collective entity" and this does NOT define healthcare in the USA so people need to stop referring to healthcare in the USA as a system. BTW, the first time this National one payer system was advanced was by Republican Teddy Roosevelt in 1918, then by Presidents FDR, Truman, Kennedy, LBJ,Nixon being the last. What the Clintons proposed in 95 was not a one payer system. Kerry had a great idea and that was to allow the Uninsured to BUY into(read not for Free) the FEHBP(federal employee health benefit plan). You could, as the federal employees do, choose from one of the 200+ plans available to the Federal employees, Congress, Senate. VP and President. The reason for the reasonable rates in the FEHBP is that they(fed gov)negotiate great rates due to the sheer number of employees. This would have went a long way in reducing the Number of uninsured and brought uniformity into play. One has to wonder how much time and money is squandered into what we have now. The Politicians and their families should be placed on the same footing(healthcare wise) as the rest of us and if they were, rest assured the Insurance situation would have been resolved long ago. A few weeks ago a well known old line US company in my hometown of Erie, Pa closed down and moved their operations to Mexico. That company was American Sterilizer, famous for their Top Ouality Hospital Sterilizing Units and One of the Major reasons was the fact they could not remain competitive due to employee health insurance rates while Mexico has a National Health Insurance Plan(Seguridad Social-a good plan as many of our retired americans in Mexico also buy into this system for $28/monthly-a retired buddy used it there for his cancer of the prostate operation and it worked great, payed for his hospital stay, surgeon, x-rays, antibiotics ect) Anyone doubting what I say about this Mexico plan, please Google "retiring in Mexico" and see the comments made by retirees on healthcare who use this system in mexico. Even where I receive my healthcare as a Vet(vietnam era) in the VA Medical system, we were shortchaged by Bush over 2 Billion dollars last year. I see that as a Vet(experience it firsthand) and someone who retired from the VA Medical system after 22 years service in the Federal Government. I also saw the Nursing shortage in our our various units. Saw where thousands of Vets were disinfranchised from using the VA by Bush after they honorably served their country when asked to. Too bad he(bush) did not have to use it for a day or so and that problem also would be resolved.