[RN Power Ohio]

If this discussion is to get anywhere there needs to be a true debate of the issues! Rather than name calling why is SEIU not taking advantage of the many, many opportunities to discuss and debate the issue. There were many people who wanted to hear the CHP nurses story at Labor Notes but this was not possible because of the behavior of SEIU. Most who were on SEIU's side were turned away because of the of the complete lack of respect demonstrated towards ALL labor leaders and activists at this conference.

The Future of the Labor Movement? Reflections on the Labor Notes Conference

By Stephanie Luce
Monthly Review
April 22, 2008
"I wonder if SEIU has lost sight of the real battle. It is ironic how they seem happy to sign partnership deals in peace with the employers, and save their yelling and disruption for a random group of union members who get together on a Saturday morning in Detroit to talk about labor and politics."

http://www.calnurses.org/media-cente...ference-1.html

Perhaps you are not aware of the bigger picture- the all important discussion of RM petitions and the proposed NLRB rule change allowing RJ petition and the return of the company union!

[HobbesRN]

Originally Posted by RN Power Ohio

Hardly as cut and dry as you might like to make it seem:
http://www.calnurses.org/assets/pdf/...letter_mna.pdf

As a victim of violence inflicted upon me personally by SEIU on at least 2 seperate occasions in the past 60 days I can tell you- I will be seeking my own restraining order against SEIU!

Here's another point of view-- and this isn't the perspective of the CHP nurses who were illegally approached by CNA operatives on the premises of their employers in Ohio. That's a whole other story!
CNA has distorted the facts and employed fear tactics in their campaign to smear SEIU in Ohio:
Week of 4/21 Talking Points on SEIU and CNA – Updated 4/22 p.m.

On Labor Notes protest

• CNA has decried the “violent” protest led by SEIU at a conference held by Labor Notes in Dearborn, Michigan on 4/12. A brief and spontaneous scuffle did take place between SEIU protestors trying to enter the hotel – mostly female homecare workers who are SEIU members -- and conference organizers trying to keep them out. Contrary to the CNA’s description of what happened, many of the SEIU protestors were being pushed, shoved, and even assaulted by conference marshals. Any allegation that SEIU instructed protesters to engage in any acts of violence or threats of violence is completely false and baseless.

• Background: Photos on the CNA and Labor Notes websites and even a video assembled by CNA offered as “evidence” of violence by protestors actually depict the peaceful protestors under attack by conference security. A Dearborn police sergeant told a blogger: “‘It’s definitely been blown way out of proportion, he said. ‘Once police arrived, they left without any problem… It was done within minutes, and I don’t know why it’s been blown out of proportion as it has.’”

On raiding

• Currently, CNA is raiding SEIU registered nurse members at public hospitals in California, and SEIU registered nurse members in Catholic Healthcare West-owned hospitals in Las Vegas (election 5/6-7) in addition to sabotaging in March the opportunity for more than 8,000 registered nurses and other hospital workers in Ohio to choose whether to form a union with SEIU.
  
• The CNA is also raiding an AFSCME-affiliated hospital in Houston, Texas and has mailed union “decertification” cards to nurses in multiple states where SEIU and other unions already represent registered nurses.
• CNA has engaged in the pattern and practice of raiding already-represented union hospitals or otherwise disrupting legitimate organizing by other unions in many states for years.

More information: www.ShameOnCNA.com

I'm sure there are plenty of nurses who could benefit from CNA's agenda---so, why don't they do the work of organizing those nurses instead of degrading the work done by other organizations and attempting to deprive other workers of their right to union representation?? These professionals don't need to be 'rescued', as CNA purports...it's just far easier to DESTRUCT rather than CONSTRUCT!

[RN Power Ohio]

Re: Labor Notes- 19 eyewitness accounts say different! The police arrived AFTER Diane Feeley was injured by SEIU staff and members so they obviosly missed the scuffle (unfortunately, I did not).

Re: Raiding - Afscme doesn't have any RN bargaining units in Houston. Only RN union in Texas is NNOC!

RN's have the right to choose to be a part of whatever organization they choose! They should not have only one choice because they live in a certain area or the employer chose the union!

[Michigan RN]

Interesting. I had no idea that conference was being held in Dearborn,Michigan which is not far from me.

Anyhow, on a side note, if I am going to be represented by a union, I would at least like to be represented by one that is for RNs only and has no affiliation with my employer.

[HobbesRN]

Originally Posted by RN Power Ohio

Re: Labor Notes- 19 eyewitness accounts say different! The police arrived AFTER Diane Feeley was injured by SEIU staff and members so they obviosly missed the scuffle (unfortunately, I did not).

Re: Raiding - Afscme doesn't have any RN bargaining units in Houston. Only RN union in Texas is NNOC!

RN's have the right to choose to be a part of whatever organization they choose! They should not have only one choice because they live in a certain area or the employer chose the union!

3,000 Ohio RN's, along with over 5,000 non-union CHP employees, were DEPRIVED of that choice because of CNA's actions. CNA could have been on that ballot if they had submitted ONE SIGNED CARD--they didn't do that. This was a free and fair election process that was disrupted by CNA's union-busting agenda. It worked out EXACTLY as CNA planned.
The argument that SEIU is a 'company union' is another case of CNA's 'no holds barred' rhetoric. SEIU has worked for 10 years to organize CHP, a blatantly anti-union organization. That CHP 'hand picked' SEIU in light of SEIU's long-fought campaign is a ridiculous and inflammatory comment.

CNA's rhetoric did not hold up under the scrutiny of the California Supreme Court, as evidenced by yesterday's decision.

www.ShameOnCNA.com

[nicurn001]

[quote=HobbesRN;2794810]3,000 Ohio RN's, along with over 5,000 non-union CHP employees, were DEPRIVED of that choice because of CNA's actions. CNA could have been on that ballot if they had submitted ONE SIGNED CARD--they didn't do that. This was a free and fair election process that was disrupted by CNA's union-busting agenda. It worked out EXACTLY as CNA planned.I have seen in a number of sites ,this argument being used by CNA supporters , asking why SEIU after its 10 years of attempting to organize had no cards signed , so it is interesting that you would throw out this accusation .
The argument that SEIU is a 'company union' is another case of CNA's 'no holds barred' rhetoric. SEIU has worked for 10 years to organize CHP, a blatantly anti-union organization. That CHP 'hand picked' SEIU in light of SEIU's long-fought campaign is a ridiculous and inflammatory comment.. I find it incomprehensible that if union has the degree of support it needs to apply for a representation vote , it would partner with management and ALLOW MANAGEMENT TO FILE FOR THE VOTE , why did not the SEIU not simply ask the employer to accept a neutrality agreement where management would not interfere with a vote , then file for the vote itself .In the UK (where I came from) ,any union worth its salt , would not have to rely on the employer to file for it and if it did it would be laughed out of court by those it would wish to represent . If the union was so weak it had to rely on management for this ( filing for vote), how would they be able to represent me effectively .CNA's rhetoric did not hold up under the scrutiny of the California Supreme Court, as evidenced by yesterday's decision.
Getting away from the rights and wrongs of who did what to whom and when , fundamentally I am asking the question , would I want to be represented by an organization that has to rely on somebody else , to take a basic action for itself . I know what my answer is .
Whilst you( those who want the SEIU ) may have much invested in the SEIU and the orgizational drive prior to the disrupted vote ( accepting your view ,for this argument ) . Surely if you believe that you have the support of the employee's , you should file for the vote , allow the CNA to be on the ballot and blow them out of the water . That would be the best answer you could possibly have to the CNA's disruption of your vote . Remember it is YOUR VOTE , not management , not CNA's , YOUR VOTE !.
If the SEIU cannot organize a vote without the aid of management ,it is awfully hard to see it as anything other than a management union ,without enough support to be able to act independently

[klbackus]

There's still more legal action against CNA pending, including an anti-SLAPP (which stands for strategic lawsuit against public participation) motion claiming that CNA sought the restraining order to silence free speech.

See: http://www.ibabuzz.com/politics/2008...ssed-by-court/

[klbackus]

Originally Posted by RN Power Ohio

Re: Raiding - Afscme doesn't have any RN bargaining units in Houston. Only RN union in Texas is NNOC!

Not according to the Houston Chronicle, "Union is wary of its new rival on the scene / An area leader says California Nurses group is `raiding' her local".

[HobbesRN]

per nicurn001-
I find it incomprehensible that if union has the degree of support it needs to apply for a representation vote , it would partner with management and ALLOW MANAGEMENT TO FILE FOR THE VOTE , why did not the SEIU not simply ask the employer to accept a neutrality agreement where management would not interfere with a vote , then file for the vote itself

The reason SEIU did not file for the vote is that they felt they had enough support to DEMAND that CHP recognize them as the bargaining agent for their employees and CHP would not do that. So, CHP petitioned for the vote, hoping that SEIU would lose. This just another means to get unionization---it does not at all mean that SEIU was in collusion with CHP. On the contrary, it's been an historically contentious relationship for years.
That this was a back door deal is just one of the lies CNA has been spreading---that it's a distortion of facts is irrelevant to them. So, you see, it was not a matter of 'ALLOWING' management to file for the vote-- CHP was hoping to win rather than to just recognize the SEIU as the representative of its employees. This is a method used by many other unions to organize a bargaining unit. CNA just put this very distorted spin on the process.
CHP has not co-operated with SEIU in anyway through this process--having lived through an organization drive as a CHP employee, I know that to be ludicrous assumption.

[nicurn001]

As I said in reply 16 of this thread "Surely if you believe that you have the support of the employee's , you should file for the vote , allow the CNA to be on the ballot and blow them out of the water . That would be the best answer you could possibly have to the CNA's disruption of your vote . Remember it is YOUR VOTE , not management , not CNA's , YOUR VOTE !."
I am not trying to be provocative or argumentative , by repeating my comment above, but having read from both sides of this dispute and firmly believing in the benefits of representation , surely the SEIU has nothing to loose and much to gain by filing for a vote rather than accepting the withdrawal of the vote .It does leave the impression that the SEIU doubts the outcome of a vote .